Omega Springs
So I have a lot of benchmades, (not compared to some of you) some of which are more than 10 years old. I've never had an omega spring break. I don't hear people talk about it much here either.
However, on blade forum I feel like it's once a week someone complaining about omega springs breaking, then a bunch of people chiming in saying that it happens all the time and they need to send it back.
What are these people doing with their knives? How do you break one of those springs?
However, on blade forum I feel like it's once a week someone complaining about omega springs breaking, then a bunch of people chiming in saying that it happens all the time and they need to send it back.
What are these people doing with their knives? How do you break one of those springs?
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Nadda single one.
Maybe they're becoming slighlty corroded before they bust?0 -
I see that all the time over there, too. I think it's mostly the hyperfans of other brands always looking for a way to make Benchmade look bad to people who don't know any better.
I have carried Benchmades with Axis locks almost every single day for well over ten years. I use my work knives pretty hard. I have never had a single problem with an omega spring.
One time I assembled a knife incorrectly so only one omega spring was attached and the knife worked and locked perfectly. It felt a little weird though so I knew I'd messed something up. So even if one side were to break, the lock would still function.
Those people are just full of it in my opinion.0 -
quote:Originally posted by different:
I see that all the time over there, too. I think it's mostly the hyperfans of other brands always looking for a way to make Benchmade look bad to people who don't know any better.
This was my thinking as well.0 -
Plus, anytime it's mentioned, you get people posting "me too." It might be the same 10 people, but it adds to the noise and may make the problem seem worse than it is. 0 -
I've never broken one. Got 60+ axis knives though I only carry 25 or so. 0 -
I was (not carefully enuf) grinding some steel off the hidden face of a liner and nicked a spring-- removed about half the cross-section of the spring wire, right in the middle of the curve. Used the knife many times before finally having it replaced-- it never broke. 0 -
In seven years of many opening cycles have had nary an Axis spring fail. 0 -
One guy over there even said that when his omega springs broke, he got them replaced and threw the knife in a junk drawer. I offered to take it off his hands for him since it's "junk" to him, but he never took me up on it.
I have to wonder if some of these folks flick their Axis knives open & closed repeated thousands of times per day like a habit and don't even realize that they're putting that much wear on them. Then when they break, they're "shocked" that it broke.0 -
I have flicked many of my axis knives thousands of times a day. Still never had a problem. 0 -
Ya i used to flick a bunch as well. 
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I really think people have to be exaggerating the problem.
I carried my 722 everyday for years and must have flicked it open many thousands of times and the omega springs are still as good as new.
I've never had a single problem with an omega spring on any of the dozens of axis lock knives that I've carried since then.
I don't doubt that it does happen, but based on my own experience, I think it has to be pretty rare.0 -
Going on 12 years with my first ever benchmade, a 940. I wore out the first blade, swapped in a D2 LE blade... still going with the original springs.
Also, here we get nothing but people who talk about how they haven't broken any, but there are people who voted 1... but no one has shared their story of what happened to make them break.0 -
I've had two (or three, can't quite remember) break, but all on my Kulgera. Benchmade said they had some defective springs made for that model in particular, and since they've replaced them for the last time several years ago I've been fine. Not that anyone here needs to be told, but the knife did continue to function perfectly, albeit it with less pressure on the axis bar, even with one spring broken. 0 -
Well I have had one brake on my 525-701, it's like anything merchanical it can happen and the knive still works with one side broken.
I just have to send it into BM and it will be fixed, I have personally seen it happen twice (once on mine and once on a friends mini grip).0 -
Just one on a 940. Probably saw a couple hundred openings and was purchased in 2010 0 -
Over 10 years carring Benchmades and only had one spring break. On a 940 that got used a lot at the time. I'm always opening andn closing my 705 when ever I can and its still going strong. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by something:
I really think people have to be exaggerating the problem.
I carried my 722 everyday for years and must have flicked it open many thousands of times and the omega springs are still as good as new.
I've never had a single problem with an omega spring on any of the dozens of axis lock knives that I've carried since then.
I don't doubt that it does happen, but based on my own experience, I think it has to be pretty rare.
Long time ago I did very conservative math on how many cycles my knife went through.
If I remember correctly it was very conservatively 11,000 cycles in about ten years... That's only 3 times a day, was my only EDC aside from my 3550 which I broke coil springs in.
A still conservative number of cycles if around 20,000 cycles and what I think is more realistic looking back 30,000+ cycles.
Did I ever mention that the 722 is what got me hooked on Benchmade?! That knife set the bar... I wrist flipped it, batoned it before I knew batoning was a thing and treated it like crap and it still had ZERO blade play... I miss her.0 -
A guy who worries that he is going to have a problem with both his omega springs on the same trip is the same guy who drives a new car and worries that the radiator might blow up because he heard that happens sometimes.
Omega spring frets and worries have to be either a brand "X" fanboy rumor thing, or a manifestation experienced by someone who went cold turkey off his OCD meds.
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I open and close whatever knife I'm carrying like a junkie.
I have never had a spring fail, in anyway.
Now, add to that the fact that I have taken most, if not all, of my knives apart dozens & dozens of times for scale fittings and still have had no issue!?
Broken spring? Please!
It is a supurb design. Simply a joy to work with.
Thank you Benchmade.
Near as I can figure, these people claiming broken springs are using their knives in extreme conditions, not caring for them correctly and in addition are extremely unlucky.
Or they are just liars.
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I am confused though. Out of everyone who voted, 27 per cent said they experienced an omega failure and 74 per cent have not. That's 101 per cent guys... I have never ever had a spring fail, don't really see how it would happen, but by this poll alone, a 27 per cent failure rate seems a little high. 0 -
I have never had the omega springs broken on my knives. I have full confidence in the Axis lock, these springs are tough. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by hack:
I am confused though. Out of everyone who voted, 27 per cent said they experienced an omega failure and 74 per cent have not. That's 101 per cent guys... I have never ever had a spring fail, don't really see how it would happen, but by this poll alone, a 27 per cent failure rate seems a little high.
Consider what the number actually means.
I have maybe a dozen BMs with axis lock. One axis spring has broken, so I voted yes.
Now say everyone who voted in the poll is in my situation. That'd be 100% towards failure in the poll, yet going by knives, that's really only a 1 out of 12 = 8.3% rate of failure.
Then throw on top of that it's going by whole lifespan of ownership, not per year or anything like that.
So putting it all together, if you were to look at failure rate per year for the people who voted in this poll, it would be nothing close to 27%. Even failure rate per knife for its entirely lifespan would be a fraction of that 27%, considering how many BMs people here have.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Keyman:
I open and close whatever knife I'm carrying like a junkie.
I have never had a spring fail, in anyway.
Now, add to that the fact that I have taken most, if not all, of my knives apart dozens & dozens of times for scale fittings and still have had no issue!?
Broken spring? Please!
It is a supurb design. Simply a joy to work with.
Thank you Benchmade.
Near as I can figure, these people claiming broken springs are using their knives in extreme conditions, not caring for them correctly and in addition are extremely unlucky.
Or they are just liars.
Keyman,
There are very few times if ever that I disagree with you, but this time I must.
Even Benchmade will tell you that there is a small percentage of their springs that fail or brake, even with the highest quality control standards you will always get a certain percentage of failures all be it a low one.
No one is saying that there is anything wrong with an Axis Lock but as any good engineer will tell you, with any mechanical device some will fail and that is a fact of life.
The best part is that Benchmade will fix the issue ASAP and they will also tell you that they have seen broken Omega Springs when knives have come in for sharpening and the customer doesn’t even know it because there are two of them and the knife will still work with only one spring.
Keep in mind that Benchmade has made perhaps a million knives or more over the years and with those sort of numbers it’s going to happen, it might be within a week, 10 years or never but it is just a fact of life with manufacturing.
It doesn’t have anything to do with abuse or people being “liars”, it is what it is and it happens like it can happen to any mechanical device made by man.0 -
^Agree.
Moreover, I don't see how use under "extreme conditions" even can occur. How do you affect the axis spring to an extreme degree? There is only so much pressure you can put on it since you're limited by how far the bar can travel in the channel.
Springs have a lifespan, some (of the same type) lasting longer than others. That's just how it is. Jumping over to another brand with assisted opening, you can see their torsion bar suffers the same fate; some people have never had one broken, while others have had them break quickly, while others have had them break after a few years, etc., etc., even though they're rated by the company for 10,000 openings.0 -
First, let me say I've never had an Omega spring break...that I know of! It never occurred to me that I could have one broken and not even know it because the Axis still works fine. That's something to think about!
But at the same time, statistics don't lie, despite how liars use them!
So, as with any mechanical object, some small percentage of these springs are going to fail. While the mean-time-to-failure may be 10,000 cycles or whatever, a tiny fraction are going to fail out of the box, just as a few others will last forever.
My sense is that if a knife were used in extreme hot or cold, especially in very cold winter conditions, that would likely reduce the spring's resilience. Also, any sand or other abrasives caught in the knife is going to cause wear.
The only thing that surprises me about this thread is the extreme discrepancy between our experiences here, and the apparent different experience on that other forum. Gotta be karma!0 -
Well, there must be a very small fail rate that's for sure.
Extreme conditions would be continually removing and installing these springs. Putting them in homemade scales that they don't really fit in correctly.
Or the knife being submerged into water or some other foreign material (mud, Coffee, whatever)and then not being disassembled for proper cleaning.
It's a tempered spring. There are only so many things that can effect this thing. Temperature extremes, too hot will ruin the temper. This is unlikely. Repeated cycling could theoretically heat up the metal. I doubt it could hot enough to effect though. Very cold conditions would make it more brittle.
Corrosion, with foreign materials left on the spring itself it would hold moisture much easier and therefore corrode just that much quicker.
Where along the spring itself do they break?
That in itself is a clue as to why the spring broke in the first place.
I have had 2 torsion bars break on me. There is more of a load on a torsion bar because it's used for moving the blade. Plus the torsion bar takes the load in shorter distance of material. While the omega spring has almost a full circle of spring to with stand the load the axis bar only.
You know when I make a set of scales I count on the axis lock to operate correctly and you know what? It reliably does!0 -
I have not had an Omega spring break so far.
That said, I recently took apart a knife to add custom scales to it. It appears the spring was rubbing against the old scale on one side. The spring has a flat spot on it instead of being round, so it may be just a matter of time before it breaks0 -
quote:Originally posted by Keyman:
Well, there must be a very small fail rate that's for sure.
Extreme conditions would be continually removing and installing these springs. Putting them in homemade scales that they don't really fit in correctly.
Or the knife being submerged into water or some other foreign material (mud, Coffee, whatever)and then not being disassembled for proper cleaning.
It's a tempered spring. There are only so many things that can effect this thing. Temperature extremes, too hot will ruin the temper. This is unlikely. Repeated cycling could theoretically heat up the metal. I doubt it could hot enough to effect though. Very cold conditions would make it more brittle.
Corrosion, with foreign materials left on the spring itself it would hold moisture much easier and therefore corrode just that much quicker.
Where along the spring itself do they break?
That in itself is a clue as to why the spring broke in the first place.
I have had 2 torsion bars break on me. There is more of a load on a torsion bar because it's used for moving the blade. Plus the torsion bar takes the load in shorter distance of material. While the omega spring has almost a full circle of spring to with stand the load the axis bar only.
You know when I make a set of scales I count on the axis lock to operate correctly and you know what? It reliably does!
That makes sense. I was only thinking pressure on the spring.
FWIW, the 940 mine broke in had been taken apart once, but the axis springs weren't removed. It also wasn't used in extreme temperatures really (Pennsylvania and Tennessee--both are pretty mild in temp). Neither are extremely dry, though, so perhaps corrosion was a factor.
On the I've noticed although the spring is round, when you push the axis bar back, most of bending occurs at the bottom (evenly between the ends), so the load isn't evenly distributed. I would guess they break there at the bottom (though I didn't take mine apart when it broke to see, just sent it in).0 -
quote:Originally posted by thelastname:
Consider what the number actually means.
I have maybe a dozen BMs with axis lock. One axis spring has broken, so I voted yes.
Now say everyone who voted in the poll is in my situation. That'd be 100% towards failure in the poll, yet going by knives, that's really only a 1 out of 12 = 8.3% rate of failure.
Then throw on top of that it's going by whole lifespan of ownership, not per year or anything like that.
So putting it all together, if you were to look at failure rate per year for the people who voted in this poll, it would be nothing close to 27%. Even failure rate per knife for its entirely lifespan would be a fraction of that 27%, considering how many BMs people here have.
I have no issue with your numbers, I'm just saying that as the poll stands, it doesn't add up. I am a huge proponent of the axis and can't imagine a failure rate, but we are dealing with the numbers presented. This is the major flaw of stats. My father used to have an old expression that I live by. "The machine will always break before the man." There is no doubt omegas will fail, all machines do, I'm just saying the probability of my knife failing in my lifetime is very small. And I don't trust stats...0 -
quote:Originally posted by hack:quote:Originally posted by thelastname:
Consider what the number actually means.
I have maybe a dozen BMs with axis lock. One axis spring has broken, so I voted yes.
Now say everyone who voted in the poll is in my situation. That'd be 100% towards failure in the poll, yet going by knives, that's really only a 1 out of 12 = 8.3% rate of failure.
Then throw on top of that it's going by whole lifespan of ownership, not per year or anything like that.
So putting it all together, if you were to look at failure rate per year for the people who voted in this poll, it would be nothing close to 27%. Even failure rate per knife for its entirely lifespan would be a fraction of that 27%, considering how many BMs people here have.
I have no issue with your numbers, I'm just saying that as the poll stands, it doesn't add up. I am a huge proponent of the axis and can't imagine a failure rate, but we are dealing with the numbers presented. This is the major flaw of stats. My father used to have an old expression that I live by. "The machine will always break before the man." There is no doubt omegas will fail, all machines do, I'm just saying the probability of my knife failing in my lifetime is very small. And I don't trust stats...
I wasn't trying to cast doubt on the numbers of the poll, only put them in the right context. The context is as important as the numbers (and the numbers are as important as the context). The poll really addresses the question, "Of major buyers/enthusiasts of Benchmade knives (meaning people who have lots, or at least more than one), who has ever had some number of axis springs break?" That's not the same as "What percentage of Benchmade knives have had an axis lock break; i.e., what is the rate of failure of the axis spring?" If you took stats from the same group of people on both those questions, you'd end up with very different percentages. I think we are both making that point in different ways.0
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