781
Who has a 781 Anthem on the way? Eventually
I do, I do and really looking forward to it.
I spoke with BKC yesterday about the 781 and found out the spine is crowned! All done by hand.
Just another added attraction to this stellar knife from BKC.
That's the good news.
The bad news is it may take longer than anticipated to get one.
Optimistically we could be seeing them at the end of March. Realistically, sigh,. . . much later.
This all comes from BKC customer service.
On the sunny side this gives us time to save up for it.
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quote:Originally posted by Bill Hammer:
Then maybe LB will do a group anodization before the 781-1 is released
Whew, glad that was confirmed! When do I sign up?
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Damn. This thread is getting expensive. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by TheRedMenace:
Does the 781 have a steel stop pin, and if not, could the handle potentially deform after a while, from the force of the blade hitting the softer titanium?
Also, does it have steel washers set inside the titanium to prevent the ball bearings from wearing tracks into the titanium?
According to the youtube video I saw in which the guy did a quick takedown the answer to both of your questions is no. There is no steel stop pin and no steel washers set in the titanium. As far as the titanium wearing that is a good question I too would like answered. There are a lot of ti framelocks out there. I'm assuming benchmade knows what they are doing and the titanium wear must not be an issue. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself on ti characteristics will chime in.0 -
There is no steel stop pin, but I'm sure Benchmade tested this issue before deciding they didn't need one.
Ti has a pretty high modulus of elasticity. It might take more light hammering than steel without deformation for all I know. Help me out Mobile Firelord...0 -
quote:Originally posted by ncindians:
According to the youtube video I saw in which the guy did a quick takedown the answer to both of your questions is no. There is no steel stop pin and no steel washers set in the titanium. As far as the titanium wearing that is a good question I too would like answered. There are a lot of ti framelocks out there. I'm assuming benchmade knows what they are doing and the titanium wear must not be an issue. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself on ti characteristics will chime in.
Ironically I'm avoiding studying for an advanced aerospace materials final I have tomorrow, which extensively covers titanium uses. It all depends on the titanium alloy they use. They list it simply as titanium billet, but it's most likely an alloy such as Ti 6Al4V. The wear really depends on the heat treat of the alloy after machining. I imagine they really dialed in their heat treat and know what they're doing, but I have had some Ti framelocks that were not heat treated all that well and developed problems on the lock face after use.
That being said, I'm sure the Benchmade engineers know what they're doing and have put the knife through its paces with plenty of openings and closings to test that interface between the blade and handle.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
There is no steel stop pin, but I'm sure Benchmade tested this issue before deciding they didn't need one.
Ti has a pretty high modulus of elasticity. It might take more light hammering than steel without deformation for all I know. Help me out Mobile Firelord...
Its not the blade/stop interface that concerns me as much as the bearing path. I have to wonder how it will hold up with a nice tightly screwed pivot as is needed for zero blade play after a thousand or so flicks with the ball bearings smashed against the side of the ti rolling over the same path repetitively.0 -
ARRIVAL
And loving it.
You're right Bill, it should be called the Chameleon. A knife of many colors.
Has anyone noticed that the butterfly is greenish if you turn it in the light just so?0 -
quote:Originally posted by ncindians:
...I have to wonder how it will hold up with a nice tightly screwed pivot as is needed for zero blade play after a thousand or so flicks with the ball bearings smashed against the side of the ti rolling over the same path repetitively.
It is an interesting question. Steel and Ti have a high friction interface, one of the reasons I think that Benchmade has never used Ti liners for Axis locks. Actually, I think the Axis on my 781 was rather dry as received. After a few actuations the steel Axis parts started galling on the Ti in the handle slot. The Axis lock became almost dysfunctional. I threw some Blue Lube on there, and all is gut, but that is an illustration of what results when SS meets Ti in a machanism. So what is going on with the ball bearings rolling around on the Ti handle sides is a very interesting question indeed.
Oh, I have had no counter indications wrt the pivot, by the way. It has been free swinging all the while. The movement is still rather noisey, but working flawlessly.0 -
This knife takes amazing pictures.
Looking forward to seeing some great shots.
Where's PM when you need him!0 -
quote:Oh, I have had no counter indications wrt the pivot, by the way. It has been free swinging all the while. The movement is still rather noisey, but working flawlessly.
Po mine is VERY free swinging. Pull back on the AXIS and there's zero friction.
I usually keep my pivots where the blade will drop on its own when the AXIS is pulled back. But no easy swinging.
Flicking it back in takes some muscle memory. It likes to bounce right back out.
I want to wait to find out about how tight it should be before adjusting it a bit tighter.0 -
If it's anything like the 761 (which also has berings) tightening doesn't really slow the blade much but it does smash the berings into the titanium which causes a crunchy sandy sound and feel that can't possibly be good for the knife.
Like you said BM, be cautious about over tightening until we get some feedback from Jason.1 -
quote:Originally posted by boinkman:
If it's anything like the 761 (which also has berings) tightening doesn't really slow the blade much but it does smash the berings into the titanium which causes a crunchy sandy sound and feel that can't possibly be good for the knife.
Like you said BM, be cautious about over tightening until we get some feedback from Jason.
A crunchy sandy sound is definitely not reassuring.ha I was certainly hoping I could tighten down the pivot as much as I wanted without having to worry about anything just like with any other knife.0 -
quote:Originally posted by boinkman:
If it's anything like the 761 (which also has berings) tightening doesn't really slow the blade much but it does smash the berings into the titanium which causes a crunchy sandy sound and feel that can't possibly be good for the knife.
Like you said BM, be cautious about over tightening until we get some feedback from Jason.
I'll try to get into this more tomorrow, but in the interim, don't torque your pivot screws down much. Too much pressure will yield the Ti.
Blades are supposed to swing freely on this knife.0 -
Just realized I misspelled bearings. Twice. Doh.
Thanks for the reply Jason.0 -
I hope I'm not giving the wrong impression. My knife is unaltered, and the blade swings freely. It's just that you can hear the bearings rolling in there...sound means vibration. I've got a couple of IKBS knives, that are practically silent as they swing. I just wonder if the steel bearing on the Ti handle has something to do with that...
...anyway, it's a brilliant knife and I'll worry about steel/Ti wear when and if it actually occurs.0 -
quote:Originally posted by boinkman:
Just realized I misspelled bearings. Twice...
Well...at least you didn't say...bare-ings...
Hehehehehe...bare-ings...hehehehehe...0 -
Its starting to seem like it would have made a whole lot more sense to put phosphor bronze washers in this knife instead of bearings. They would likely stay in place next to the ti and the blade would just swing between them like on any other axis knife. Then you could tighten the pivot down all you wanted without any concern. Never heard of anybody complaining about the smoothness on an axis lock knife anyway. Mine are all pretty darn smooth. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ncindians:
Its starting to seem like it would have made a whole lot more sense to put phosphor bronze washers in this knife instead of bearings. They would likely stay in place next to the ti and the blade would just swing between them like on any other axis knife. Then you could tighten the pivot down all you wanted without any concern. Never heard of anybody complaining about the smoothness on an axis lock knife anyway. Mine are all pretty darn smooth.
I'm pretty sure we're going a bit down a rabbit hole on this one. I apologise for stirring the pot.
The 761 and 765 have a similar bearing on Ti setup and it's pretty much a non issue. I only noted that over tightening the pivot on those models does nothing but grind the bearings meaning if you tightened the pivot, the blade still travels smooth but is wearing a path of least resistance without any improvement in function. There isn't really any design flaw. My 761 has grooves in the Ti where the bearings travel and it's smooth as silk with zero blade play.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
Hehehehehe...bare-ings...hehehehehe...quote:Originally posted by boinkman:
There isn't really any design flaw.
Yeah, it's bearly an issue. Am I doing it right?0 -
Ah, so the 76X also has bearings...well that's a good sign. If there was a problem they would have seen it on those models.
A bearing pivot has its pros and cons, but it seems fitting on a knife of this class.0 -
quote:Originally posted by kirbysdl:quote:Originally posted by Po:
Hehehehehe...bare-ings...hehehehehe...
Yeah, it's bearly an issue. Am I doing it right?
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Yeah, it was a good one. 0 -
Kudos to Jason and the team on designing a perfect knife. I'm in awe of the work that went into the 781. That being said. I'm having a bit of vertical play related to the axis bar not engaging completely. I'm sure it'll work in. I tried rotating the lock bar and it doesn't. Lol. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by boinkman:
...I'm having a bit of vertical play related to the axis bar not engaging completely...
Be sure that the slots that the Axis bar slides back on forth in are lubed. If those get dry, binding could result.0 -
quote:Originally posted by boinkman:
Kudos to Jason and the team on designing a perfect knife. I'm in awe of the work that went into the 781. That being said. I'm having a bit of vertical play related to the axis bar not engaging completely. I'm sure it'll work in. I tried rotating the lock bar and it doesn't. Lol.
I can't take any credit for this one.. Wish I could!
The lock bar actually rides on flats inside the AXIS slot. It increases the contact surface between the components, which decreases galling and sticking (which is a constant concern with Ti). Actually worked out better than I expected!0 -
Do we have an update yet on tightening the pivot down as far as the bearings smashing into the titanium handle and causing issues? Jason said he would get into that more later. 0 -
Yeah, but he also said "don't." 
quote:Originally posted by BMK Jason:
don't torque your pivot screws down much. Too much pressure will yield the Ti.0 -
quote:Originally posted by kirbysdl:
Yeah, but he also said "don't."quote:Originally posted by BMK Jason:
don't torque your pivot screws down much. Too much pressure will yield the Ti.
I got that part but he also said in the interim don't tighten it down too much and that he would get into it more the next day. I was just curious what more he had to say on the issue.0 -
There is no reason to tighten the pivot beyond the point where 99% of the slack is out of it. Don't see that as an issue. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ncindians:quote:Originally posted by kirbysdl:
Yeah, but he also said "don't."quote:Originally posted by BMK Jason:
don't torque your pivot screws down much. Too much pressure will yield the Ti.
I got that part but he also said in the interim don't tighten it down too much and that he would get into it more the next day. I was just curious what more he had to say on the issue.
Sorry about the delay... I just wanted to take a quick run out and check in with a few assemblers before speaking out of turn. They're on the same page as I am.
We haven't had any long term issues regarding the bearings running on Ti. Procedure for adjustment is kind of backwards. Usually you take the pivot fully tight, then back off as needed. In this case, you would run the risk of forcing the ball bearings into the Ti (which is softer than the balls), so you want to get it probably 80% tight and adjust as needed from there.
This isn't the first knife to run bearings directly on Ti, so I don't anticipate issues once people get the hang of it.
If you hear a crunchy, sandy sound, you might try blowing some compressed air into the handle, as there may be some particulate matter or something in there. That shouldn't be happening.0
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