908-161
looks nice
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I read somewhere that damasteel is similar in performance to 154CM.. If that’s the case, I can’t justify spending 500+ for 154CM eye candy.
Don’t get me wrong, the scales are very unique and look awesome, but I would prefer some acid etched or DLC stonewashed M390 instead.0 -
Shouldn't the performance of damascus/layered steel be based on (1) the performance of the component steels and (2) how it's worked and heat treated?
Of course, it could be that typical commercial damascus is formulated more for looks than for hard use, but the same could be said of GC in general. GC releases don't typically get thicker liners around the Axis lock, etc. The hand-convexed edges of some GC knives are perhaps the only GC-specific design element that benefits the knife under hard use.0 -
Wow!
This knife is the heat! Absolutely gorgeous.0 -
I thought my 908-1501 was gorgeous!!!
Total WOW!!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Painstakingly Meticulous:
...I can’t justify spending 500+ for 154CM eye candy...
It's not...it's Damasteel, and layered and 3D milled carbon fiber eye candy. You can't get a more beautiful dress tactical knife for $500 anywhere I know of.
The unlimited-limited Gold Class knives are la bomba.
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quote:Originally posted by Po:
It's not...it's Damasteel
I know lol.. It’s called Damasteel, but it’s proprietary equivalent is RWL34, which is basically 154CM. What I meant by 154CM eye candy.
Product Information
ZKnives - RWL340 -
Some people just can't resist being a turd.
Congrats on the knife. It's a beautiful combination of art and function. A work of art that fits in your pocket and performs as a tool.
Very nice.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Taxesblow:
Some people just can't resist being a turd.
Congrats on the knife. It's a beautiful combination of art and function. A work of art that fits in your pocket and performs as a tool.
Very nice.
Forgive me for voicing my opinion on a public forum....
Also, the OP never stated he bought the knife, he just posted a pic from KW.0 -
Just between me and you PM. I think the whole so called quality knife thing is a total rip. I can't justify spending $100+ for a pocket knife when $7.99 can buy me this tool of superior chopping performance.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1...ss-handle-96231.html
So what if has a totally different purpose and doesn't belong in this thread. I have an opinion, this is a public forum and anyone that makes a choice to spend money that I wouldn't have spent, I'm going to tell them how stupid they are. Yeah, I know I could just go find a chinese hatchet thread just like you could find the M390 super steel praise thread, but instead people like me an you, we are two peas in a pod.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Taxesblow:
Just between me and you PM. I think the whole so called quality knife thing is a total rip. I can't justify spending $100+ for a pocket knife when $7.99 can buy me this tool of superior chopping performance.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1...ss-handle-96231.html
So what if has a totally different purpose and doesn't belong in this thread. I have an opinion, this is a public forum and anyone that makes a choice to spend money that I wouldn't have spent, I'm going to tell them how stupid they are. Yeah, I know I could just go find a chinese hatchet thread just like you could find the M390 super steel praise thread, but instead people like me an you, we are two peas in a pod.
To be clear, nowhere did I state that you would be stupid if you bought this knife. I even stated that I admire the scales. I simply expressed that I would prefer a differing steel for that price.
Some people probably think buying an overpriced 531-132 is stupid, but I could care less.. If you like a knife for whatever reason, go for it - no matter my opinion lol
If we can't discuss prices, materials, designs, or open ideas/opinions here, what's the point of being a member here?
Half the fun for me is the discussion.0 -
Since everything needs a car analogy, this is like halo cars for car manufacturers. The point is not to produce a product that will appeal to everyone, or a product that represents a great value.
The point is to give designers the chance to flex their muscles, to experiment with new materials and processes, to produce something less fettered by the typical constraints of strict practicality and broad commercial appeal.
Of course a lot of gold class knives are not going to appeal to us as individuals because they're necessarily more exotic and risky. Nonetheless, the GC line ensures that Benchmade keeps on trying new things, and that's critical for their continued success and relevance.0 -
Well said, Kirby.
I too have my limit when it comes to the value of art. The extremely limited GC knives in the $1,000+ range are beyond me. But the unlimited-limited editions are good values in my opinion. The are beautiful, generally in line in terms of price with hand made knives, and tend to be robust enough that you can use them for EDC without unforgivably degrading their value.
Knife makers these days use Damascus for looks and heritage. A fabulous blade of boutique Damascus, won't generally cut any better than the 52100 or 1085 it is made out of, but it will embody the apex of the knifemaker's craft. Damasteel is something of a faux Damascus, but it looks like Damascus, doesn't rust, and it does cut as good as 154CM, which is generally better than a carbon steel Damascus. So to me, there is value in Damasteel beyond 154CM, or even a super stainless like M390, when it comes to premium knives like the unlimited-limited GC knives. For a knife like the 908-161, the Damascus-like blade has as much value to me as M390 because of the craftsmanship, and because the knife will only be used for moderate EDC, not for hunting, hiking, work chores, etc. where edge performance is the ultimate value.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
For a knife like the 908-161, the Damascus-like blade has as much value to me as M390 because of the craftsmanship, and because the knife will only be used for moderate EDC, not for hunting, hiking, work chores, etc. where edge performance is the ultimate value.
Steel performance is my utmost concern/ultimate value when considering buying a GC. Second to that is handle materials/hardware, and whether it will make a good user.
I want the GC model to be able to outperform the regular production version and look damnnn good doing it, especially if I'm going to pay higher prices over the regular production version.
Out of the few GC models I do own, I consider all of them to have better performing steel than their regular production counterpart.. S30V (back in the day), M4, and M390.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Painstakingly Meticulous:quote:Originally posted by Po:
For a knife like the 908-161, the Damascus-like blade has as much value to me as M390 because of the craftsmanship, and because the knife will only be used for moderate EDC
Steel performance is my utmost concern/ultimate value when considering buying a GC.
That's why BM makes more than one knife, right?
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quote:Originally posted by kirbysdl:
That's why BM makes more than one knife, right?
Ahhh another member of the herd...Your nickname is befitting, minus the mountain part.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Painstakingly Meticulous:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Po:
...I want the GC model to be able to outperform the regular production version...
But that isn't necessarily the goal of the GC. That isn't the goal of a custom knife maker when he uses Damascus, and niobium, and ivory. The objective is craftsmanship and beauty.
Some of the GC knives do employ super steels, and those are usually my favorites because they are usable, but those steels are used even in the regular production line now. If all Benchmade changes is S30V up to M390 or S90V, and G-10 for carbon fiber, it isn't much of a GC model, only rises to the level of a LE.
I think it is inherent in the idea of a GOLD Class that the knife is something beyond practical utility, as most things made of gold are.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Painstakingly Meticulous:quote:Originally posted by kirbysdl:
That's why BM makes more than one knife, right?
Ahhh another member of the herd...Your nickname is befitting, minus the mountain part.
Wait, what herd?
The herd that knows people have different desires and priorities? The herd that understands that different people and different tasks require different tools? The herd that would rather see a variety of preferences satisfied rather than a futile attempt at a one-size-fits-all approach?
Sure, I'm a member of that herd.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
But that isn't necessarily the goal of the GC. That isn't the goal of a custom knife maker when he uses Damascus, and niobium, and ivory.The objective is craftsmanship and beauty.
While I appreciate the craftsmanship & beauty that is found in each Gold Class Damascus/Damasteel model, I also appreciate BKC’s ability to push the envelope with new and exciting materials that are capable of being used at the EDC level. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find some of the super-steel GC models more beautiful overall then some of the damascus/damasteel offerings I’ve seen.
That’s why I’ve never felt the need to purchase one of the more expensive Damascus offerings. I can’t justify spending that much just to have the knife sit at home so I can look at it once and a while, not to mention the inadequacies in steel composition compared to other common super-steels.quote:Originally posted by Po:
Some of the GC knives do employ super steels, and those are usually my favorites because they are usable, but those steels are used even in the regular production line now. If all Benchmade changes is S30V up to M390 or S90V, and G-10 for carbon fiber, it isn't much of a GC model,only rises to the level of a LE.
I respectfully disagree.
Right now, those super steels have made there way into the regular production lineup, however, when they were first being introduced through Gold Class models, they were new and exciting offerings that pushed the envelope with competitors.
You have somewhat of a point in regard to their current steel lineup, but that’s only because BM hasn’t released a significant new steel since S90V (mostly because M390 & S90V will be difficult to beat in general for folder steels). You’d probably be singing a different tune if this years GC releases utilized S110V.
Besides the full carbon fiber Gold Cass 555BK-101 (CPM-M4), I can’t find another example of a GC model that was semi-comparable to the LE level your describing.
I wouldn’t even go that far with the 555BK-101. The black nickel hardware with the exemplary F&F/QC trumps LE status IMO. I can’t remember when CPM-M4 was released by BKC.. If it was around the same time as 2010, then the 555BK-101 is another example of BKC trying to incorporate new popular steel through GC models.
What about all the other super-steel (non-damascus) GC models offered in the past..? Based on their handle materials alone, none of them fall anywhere near the LE category IMO. To name a few, 556-142, 556-141, 730-101, 480-131, 586-141, 531-131, 531-132, 890-111, 710-101, 940-121, 7505-131, 7505-132 etc.
Gold Class materials used along with detail oriented F&F are way above what I’ve seen in limited edition releases throughout the past few years. Plus, LE’s have pretty much the same level of quality control as the regular production models do. Some of the pictures I’ve seen of the dagger grind on the 530 LE’s are atrociously uneven. I know there are members on this forum that have received an LE with some sort of QC issue from one point or another.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Painstakingly Meticulous:quote:Originally posted by Po:
But that isn't necessarily the goal of the GC. That isn't the goal of a custom knife maker when he uses Damascus, and niobium, and ivory.The objective is craftsmanship and beauty.
While I appreciate the craftsmanship & beauty that is found in each Gold Class Damascus/Damasteel model, I also appreciate BKC’s ability to push the envelope with new and exciting materials that are capable of being used at the EDC level. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find some of the super-steel GC models more beautiful overall then some of the damascus/damasteel offerings I’ve seen.
That’s why I’ve never felt the need to purchase one of the more expensive Damascus offerings. I can’t justify spending that much just to have the knife sit at home so I can look at it once and a while, not to mention the inadequacies in steel composition compared to other common super-steels.
It seems we are far from original thread topic, but oh well. I too enjoy discussion of BKC product. I agree with PM here. I am not doubting machining and craftsmanship of BKC, but I can't get into GC. I am only going to purchase BKC for the Spartan utility value. It seems to me as silly as having AK47 gold plated. I don't enjoy ostentatious items, but that does not mean to dismiss artistic value in folder made in highly labor intensive artistic expression.
My choice of being metal snob is not new for the blade. Granted it has more commercial value for me to know the material science, but I would not think I can regain the "investment" of my both academic and traditional research.quote:Originally posted by Po:
Some of the GC knives do employ super steels, and those are usually my favorites because they are usable, but those steels are used even in the regular production line now. If all Benchmade changes is S30V up to M390 or S90V, and G-10 for carbon fiber, it isn't much of a GC model,only rises to the level of a LE.quote:Originally posted by Painstakingly Meticulous:
I respectfully disagree.
Right now, those super steels have made there way into the regular production lineup, however, when they were first being introduced through Gold Class models, they were new and exciting offerings that pushed the envelope with competitors.
You have somewhat of a point in regard to their current steel lineup, but that’s only because BM hasn’t released a significant new steel since S90V (mostly because M390 & S90V will be difficult to beat in general for folder steels). You’d probably be singing a different tune if this years GC releases utilized S110V.
Don't forget CPM20CV.I know it is not your top choice compare to M390, but they are in "upper tier" of steel within what BKC offers. With their life sharp customer service, having so many multiples of blade shape in different steel would needlessly increase their material that is stuck in inventory. BKC is a business, so to have selective steel would make more sense. I would like S110V, but let's be honest. How many of knives purchasers can tell the difference between S90V vs. S110V?
I want the latest and best steel for the knives I buy from BKC. Gold class or not...quote:Gold Class materials used along with detail oriented F&F are way above what I’ve seen in limited edition releases throughout the past few years. Plus, LE’s have pretty much the same level of quality control as the regular production models do. Some of the pictures I’ve seen of the dagger grind on the 530 LE’s are atrociously uneven. I know there are members on this forum that have received an LE with some sort of QC issue from one point or another.
Gold class knife is, IMO not a knife but an ornament, especially those Damascus steel. (Some are exempt of this, of cause) I think I am spoiled as my Grandfather showed me my family blades. They are nothing but high carbon steel with hint of manganese as far as I recall. Some of them are ornate and some doesn't even have good handle (brown colored wooden grip with strings wrapped), but it sure can perform.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mobile Firelord:
Don't forget CPM20CV.
I didn’t, I edited my comment in regard to -20CV earlier today because it was redundant (due it being the proprietary equivalent to M390).0 -
quote:Originally posted by Painstakingly Meticulous:quote:Originally posted by Mobile Firelord:
Don't forget CPM20CV.
I didn’t, I edited my comment in regard to -20CV earlier today because it was redundant (due it being the proprietary equivalent to M390).
lol not to the Steel snobs0 -
This knife is stunning.
Taking it out of the box, the whole knife looks and feels larger than the 90X previous models, specifically the 909BK and 908BK-1501 that I have. The scales are thicker, 3D milled. The blade is slightly wider overall, and the uncoated blade looks larger in profile due to the visual difference between the uncoated blade and the coated blade on my 908BK-1501. This knife is so gorgeous, and feels so good. It's a trophy knife.
The blade is truly gorgeous. The "Damascus" pattern looks like a hybrid between a traditional ladder pattern and a raindrop pattern. I really like the multi-folded appearance. The pattern is very visible, but the blade is bright.
The handle scales are fantastic, thicker than the standard 90X scales, domed, milled. The milled surfaces are tactile, but not rough. I love the red layers in the CF. The red highlights remind me of looking at the lava flows on Kilauea at night, seeing the red lava glowing in the cracks.
This is the perfect dress knife for me. Damascus that won't rust, milled handle scales, a gorgeous and very usable knife. I will be carrying it, and using it. Has me thinking about carrying two knives though, one to use hard if needed, or loan to my kid.
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Thanks for the great pics! Curious that the model with the blue barrels has a wider chamfer on the scales. 0 -
Congrats PO! Those scales are sexy [insert Austin Powers Purr here] 
I’d have a field day photographing that knife, don’t wait for special occasions, carry her!0 -
Oh, she went to lunch with me today. Meant to take a pic all slathered in BBQ sauce, but forgot...Next time. 
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PO congrats!
Looks like it provides great grip between handle shape & the carved CF0 -
That is one sexy blade and handle. Only gripe is the pocket clip on my dash 1501. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
Oh, she went to lunch with me today. Meant to take a pic all slathered in BBQ sauce, but forgot...Next time.
Haha really? That would have been priceless. Don't forget next time!0 -
OMG PO!!!!! That is one of the most beautiful blades I've seen!!
I would tell you to enjoy it, but I KNOW you will bro!!!
Pic of that beauty smothered in BBQ sauce would've been priceless, although quite blasphemous!!!
Congrats my friend!!0 -
Dress Stryker between the ribs. 
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