M4
Can you comment on the recent jump in HRC with M4?
I haven't looked into it, but does this change apply only to folders?
I haven't looked into it, but does this change apply only to folders?
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HRC will vary between the different blade styles that we offer. This is why we list in the catalog a HRC range rather than an exact number. For example the discontinued 171 Chopper will have a higher HRC than the 810 Contego even though both are M4 steel. 0 -
From what I remember on the Benchmade site the 171 was listed at 58-61 HRC and the 810 is listed at 62-64.
Was that a typo?0 -
I was thinking the same thing Skimo-- the chopper I'm thinking would have had the toughness. 0 -
From what I recall toughness isn't an issue with M4 even at 64 HRC. 0 -
RELATIVE toughness then. A chopper would methinks get rougher use than most knives. I'm thinking tho that all their M4 was the lower hardness early on, I seem to recall complaints about that. 0 -
Yes, and I recall guys stating that all the edge retention is wasted at such low HRC, the thing about M4 is it's a very tough steel even at higher HRC... Which is the point of a superior steel for that application.
I really would like to hear from Benchmade on this.0 -
Aren't pretty much all of the older M4 knives in the 58-61 range? the 520BK-1101 for example is listed as 59-61, but everything that was new this year seems to be 62-64. 0 -
that's what it looked like to me. All the new stuff has been higher than all the old stuff. I hadn't noticed different blade types being different hardness. 0 -
Does that include the first numbered batch of M4 Ritter Griptilians? Is the first batch of thos M4 ritters in the 58-61 range while the recent limited batch of 73 M4 Ritters is in the higher range?
edit:
I just looked around, and what I found out is that the first 'numbered' batch of M4 Ritter Griptilians were listed at 60-62 HRC while the new 'un-numbered' batch of mini M4 Ritters are listed at 59-61 HRC.
Huh, go figure... I guess it just depends on the batch being done.0 -
I believe the last batch of M4 mini Ritters was lower HRC than the other recent knives because they were made from leftover blades from the original run. 0 -
Can anyone (who has both) tell a difference? Sharpening, edge retention, etc.? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by something:
I believe the last batch of M4 mini Ritters was lower HRC than the other recent knives because they were made from leftover blades from the original run.
Makes sense to me.0 -
Yes, and the question is why is there a difference in HRC? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Skimo:
Yes, and the question is why is there a difference in HRC?
I havent gotta clue on BM , but my idea is that it was a live and learn situation ......BM didnt want a too brittle of a blade for customer complaints persay.
They figured out that they werent gonna be to brittle so they made them harder.
I myself would rather have a brittle blade that holds an edge forever , than a softer steel that wont chip.
I feel if a blade chips , your not using it for what it was intended........
If I wanna cut wire , I use wire cutters , I I wanna pry something , I use a pry bar ....LOL
This is just my thoughts ...... it has no factual backing to it what so ever.0 -
That's pretty close to my thoughts DJ. That's ehy I'm asking Benchmade 
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Excuse my ignorance but can the m4 be re-heat treated to a higher HRC without any adverse effects and if it can, who does this sort of thing? Thanks 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Sharp Eye:
Excuse my ignorance but can the m4 be re-heat treated to a higher HRC without any adverse effects and if it can, who does this sort of thing? Thanks
Short answer, no
Long answer (and I will try to keep this brief),
Knife blades have a 2 part heat-treat process; the first to harden, the second to temper.
The hardening step will make the blade as hard as the steel is able to reach. At this level of hardness it is completely unusable as a knife as they are at least as brittle as glass. Dropping it to a table top from a foot or two in height would likely shatter the blade.
The tempering step draws out the hardness to a more reasonable level and this is the step that the knifes 'toughness' is brought out. It will gain ductility and flexibility so that it won't chip break or shatter.
It really is a one way process. You can throw a knife in a HT oven to temper it further, but it can only get softer...
While it is possible to put a blade through the entire process again, it is simply not worth the time and effort.0 -
There is at least one guy out there who has done it... from what I heard on Bladeforums.
He may have been taking up the HRC on tool steel or ZDP-189 up to very high hardness.
As I recall blade warping may occur.
My resource for most metallurgical questions is the knife-makers section of Bladeforums.0 -
Still wondering what brought about the change in HRC of M4.
I'll accept a PM or even sign a confidentiality contract, I just want to know!
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quote:Originally posted by Skimo:
There is at least one guy out there who has done it... from what I heard on Bladeforums.
He may have been taking up the HRC on tool steel or ZDP-189 up to very high hardness.
As I recall blade warping may occur.
My resource for most metallurgical questions is the knife-makers section of Bladeforums.
ZDP 189 is so amazing stuff, ive tried it on a few knives and saw no warping, but I'm sure it happens.
I had a 806 in M4 that was warped too0 -
The issue was the Heat treating a ground blade again, not a factory issue. 0 -
Jon,
I was able to find the answer for your M4 question. After working with Warren Osborne on the 171 we were able to achieve a higher hardness rating on M4. It was not updated in the catalog last year because we print them at the end of year. That being said current M4 will have a higher hardness rating then previous M4 blades.0 -
good stuff fellas!
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Excellent to hear, on that note, I Am happy to see that you guys are evaluating steel post production 0
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