Bailout/ bugout axis bar grinding
I bought a bailout a few months back and within one day of having it the lock bar started grinding itself to dust. I sent it in to get repaired and benchmade cleaned and oiled it and send it back still grinding. Luckily the store I got it from traded it out for a totally different knife.
Today, I bought a bugout that seemed fine in the store but after flicking it casually for a few hours it developed the same problem. The grinding between tang and axis bar is so bad that it left a flat spot on the axis bar and barely closes unless you hold the axis bar back.
I feel I should be able to fidget my knife without this happening and so far its only happened with titanium axis bars. I have 10 other benchmades that have been opened and closed thousands of times more than the bugout/bailout and never had this problem.
Have any of you other fidgeters had this happen with either of these knives?
I'm sorry my first post is so negative but this is the only problem ive ever had with benchmades knives and is pretty upsetting.
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Welcome to the forum Jesse!
Yeah. It's pretty common with both models. I've had some that feel grindy, some that don't. I've upgraded a number of them using aftermarket Ti Axis Bars which resolves the problem. And I've torn down others and polished the tang of the blades and the center bar of the Axis Bars which smooths out fidgeting significantly.
I might also suggest not using the thumb stud when opening and closing them. I pull back on the Axis Bar and "Flick open" my Bugouts and Bailouts as well as many of my other Axis Lock Benchmades and do the same to close them.
Hope this helps!
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Welcome Jesse.
Guy are you sure your axis bars are Ti?
Titanium galls & that’s why I thought all axis lock parts were made of stainless steel.
Now that you found us keep posting Jesse
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Thanks for the reply Tim. I was afraid that this was a common problem because I don't really want a knife that makes me worry about this constantly. I'll just be afraid to use it knowing the bar could self destruct at any time.
Do you know of anyone that makes an aftermarket steel bar? I wonder if benchmade would have one from another model that would fit. Having it repaired by benchmade and waiting for it to happen again does not sound like any fun to me. They must know about this issue because the time I called for the bailout the guy on the phone knew the exact problem before I finished describing it. Wonder if theyre working on a solution.
Hopefully I can find a fix because I dont want an axis lock that I have to treat differently from my other axis locks. Id prefer full functionality in a knife I spent 130 bucks on.
If you have a link for those aftermarket bars I would really appreciate it. If you know someone who makes steel bars that would be even better.
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billhammer posted:
Welcome Jesse.
Guy are you sure your axis bars are Ti?
Titanium galls & that’s why I thought all axis lock parts were made of stainless steel.
Now that you found us keep posting Jesse
Yes I'm 99 percent sure they are titanium on the bailout and bugout to save weight. And theyre the only axis bars that gall and grind to dust after a couple hours of flicking.
I have a 940 thats probably been flicked literally a million times and its fine. Along with thousands of cycles on all my other benchmades.
I appreciate the warm welcome here this place seems great.
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If the axis bar is Ti, then that has changed as the original (the one I have bought on Dec 2017) was only Ti coated, the bar itself is steel. The coating has for the most part worn off as, like you, have opened/closed the Bugout hundreds of times.
I have never experienced what you are describing even though you are certainly not the first to mention terrible lock stick. If it were mine I'd take it completely apart and then look for any sharp edges anywhere and then remove them and oil the snot out of it. If you've already done that, then I have no other suggestions for you other than sell it or send it back to BM and keep sending it back until they fix the issue or send you a new properly working knife.
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Sometimes if you rotate the axis bar, counterclockwise or clockwise, it will help with a sticky bar
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I'm pretty sure that all the models I've acquired which amounts to all the the different 535 models, originally came from the factory with stainless steel Axis Bars. They may have been Ti coated. I've replaced all the ones I've customized with Ti Bars from xxxadrenalinexxx. Adrian makes some excellent precision Ti parts and I recommend him highly.
I agree with ColinP. I had 1 535, 1 1902 and 1 1903 that were really grindy. I tore them down and went over the tang and center of the axis bar with 800, 1500 and then 2000 grit wet or dry. Polished them up to a mirror finish. Since I had it apart I did the bronze phosphor washers, tang where the washers ride and the liners up too. A light coat of Blue Lube on all the contact areas and a reassemble and they were smooth as silk. I'm pretty particular when it comes to my knives and do this with a lot of them as I'm anal about centering. blade play and overall operation.
If you don't feel like tearing it down and tuning it as mentioned you can always send it in to Benchmade CS again. I would pack it up and send it priority mail. $7.90 for most of the country. Call them at 1-833-557-2526 and let Ryan or whoever answers know about your problem and that you are sending it in and that it isn't the first time. They're usually pretty good about getting things fixed especially second time around.
Hope this helps!
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/|\ Did some research the axis bar in Bailout is listed as Ti. My Bugout is one of the first & like Colin pretty sure it is steel. My latest is all black Bugout but have spent zero time with it.
Maybe Benchmade would swap out a steel for Ti axis bar on your Bailout
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Jesse222 posted:billhammer posted:
Welcome Jesse.
Guy are you sure your axis bars are Ti?
Titanium galls & that’s why I thought all axis lock parts were made of stainless steel.
Now that you found us keep posting Jesse
Yes I'm 99 percent sure they are titanium on the bailout and bugout to save weight. And theyre the only axis bars that gall and grind to dust after a couple hours of flicking.
I have a 940 thats probably been flicked literally a million times and its fine. Along with thousands of cycles on all my other benchmades.
I appreciate the warm welcome here this place seems great.
Yeah this place is pretty great. You can get a vast amount of knowledge, some great tips and chit chat with fellow knife lovers and addicts some of which have been here for years! As well there is a classified area to buy and sell. Look around and check it out!
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billhammer posted:
/|\ Did some research the axis bar in Bailout is listed as Ti. My Bugout is one of the first & like Colin pretty sure it is steel. My latest is all black Bugout but have spent zero time with it.
Maybe Benchmade would swap out a steel for Ti axis bar on your Bailout
Good to know Bill. One of each of my 1902 and 1903s came in perfect with no need to mess with at all. The others as I mentioned required some love.
And as Bill mentions you can always ask about swapping Jesse. They might do it.
Oh and "No", to my knowledge there isn't another model that uses the Bailout/Bugout axis bar. Damn things are so thin! lol
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just rechecked the original product announcement for the 535 from july of 2017 to make sure i was remembering properly. it lists the bugout as having a dlc coated ti axis bar from the beginning of production of the knife. so it doesn’t look like they were ever made with steel axis bars. the possibility of the ti bar galling on the blade tang was even discussed in the thread.
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Thanks for all the replies. I have already tried everything imaginable on the bailout to try to smooth the action including rotating the axis bar, taking down the knife and polishing all surfaces, and cleaning/ oiling. This isnt just a light grind I'm talking here its galling and catching to the point that it takes like 10 pounds of force to close without the bar pulled back for the entire travel. Same thing with both of them. I cant imagine how this knife would be so popular if its a common issue. Theres even a video of a guy flicking his for like 12 hours on youtube. I think some just get a bad heat treat on the bar and self destruct. I will definitely be inquiring about replacing the bar with a steel one.
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colinp posted:
If the axis bar is Ti, then that has changed as the original (the one I have bought on Dec 2017) was only Ti coated, the bar itself is steel. The coating has for the most part worn off as, like you, have opened/closed the Bugout hundreds of times.
I have never experienced what you are describing even though you are certainly not the first to mention terrible lock stick. If it were mine I'd take it completely apart and then look for any sharp edges anywhere and then remove them and oil the snot out of it. If you've already done that, then I have no other suggestions for you other than sell it or send it back to BM and keep sending it back until they fix the issue or send you a new properly working knife.
Nope it looks as if I am mistaken. I looked back at the product announcement as others did, and saw that the axis bar is listed as DLC coated titanium. I could have sworn it was steel. I can blame my age causing my memory to go offline at times.
However, I do still stand by my original advice and have Benchmade fix it properly as mine has always worked fine and is smooth as silk. So we know it can be corrected, no matter what the thing is made out of.
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Jesse222 posted:
Thanks for all the replies. I have already tried everything imaginable on the bailout to try to smooth the action including rotating the axis bar, taking down the knife and polishing all surfaces, and cleaning/ oiling. This isnt just a light grind I'm talking here its galling and catching to the point that it takes like 10 pounds of force to close without the bar pulled back for the entire travel. Same thing with both of them. I cant imagine how this knife would be so popular if its a common issue. Theres even a video of a guy flicking his for like 12 hours on youtube. I think some just get a bad heat treat on the bar and self destruct. I will definitely be inquiring about replacing the bar with a steel one.
Good luck Jesse. Do let us know how you fair.
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colinp posted:colinp posted:
If the axis bar is Ti, then that has changed as the original (the one I have bought on Dec 2017) was only Ti coated, the bar itself is steel. The coating has for the most part worn off as, like you, have opened/closed the Bugout hundreds of times.
I have never experienced what you are describing even though you are certainly not the first to mention terrible lock stick. If it were mine I'd take it completely apart and then look for any sharp edges anywhere and then remove them and oil the snot out of it. If you've already done that, then I have no other suggestions for you other than sell it or send it back to BM and keep sending it back until they fix the issue or send you a new properly working knife.
Nope it looks as if I am mistaken. I looked back at the product announcement as others did, and saw that the axis bar is listed as DLC coated titanium. I could have sworn it was steel. I can blame my age causing my memory to go offline at times.
However, I do still stand by my original advice and have Benchmade fix it properly as mine has always worked fine and is smooth as silk. So we know it can be corrected, no matter what the thing is made out of.
Here is the Product Announcement. You're absolutely right!
It shows as you mention "DLC Coated "titanium" lock bar".
Maybe its thetitanium used for the lock bar. Got me wondering!
I've heard complaints regarding the hardness of the 3V steel Benchmade used for these. This has me wondering if there is something happening between a softer 3V and a softer titanium making it grab especially when the tolerances are off as they must be with Jesse's Bailout.
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mrnobody posted:
just rechecked the original product announcement for the 535 from july of 2017 to make sure i was remembering properly. it lists the bugout as having a dlc coated ti axis bar from the beginning of production of the knife. so it doesn’t look like they were ever made with steel axis bars. the possibility of the ti bar galling on the blade tang was even discussed in the thread.
Yeah, I think Bill mentioned it first in his pros and cons and there was a bit of discussion on the matter through out the thread along with Bill's thong hole. Lol
There were also a few comments mentioning that with the numbers that were projected to be sold that BMC would probably have parts forever.
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I'll let you guys know what they say when I call on Monday.
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So I got it sent off to benchmade today. The label was next day air so it looks like they splurged on the shipping this time. I asked if they had started making steel bars as a solution to this problem and the guy on the phone had no idea the bugout bars were titanium. He kept trying to convince me that the bar was the same as all their other knives and acted like I was asking for some exotic super steel axis bar lol. I guess he just wasnt understanding me. Hopefully it's fixed when it comes back this time so I dont end up going 4 weeks with no new knife.
As usual customer service was fast and easy, shipping label was sent right away. I still appreciate their warranty service even though it didnt work out last time its still the easiest ive ever dealt with logistics wise. I'm cautiously optimistic.
If anyone has any tips for how they broke their knife in without making the action gritty that would help me not screw it up again hopefully.
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/|\ Jason ( designer) confirmed both Bugout & Bailout have Ti bars.
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One of the best way to make AXIS lock smooth is smoothing out of phosphor bronze washer. You might have already noticed that pivot of BKC AXIS lock is constructed in high tolerance than frame/liner lock. The lock bar is perpendicular to the blade and the rod needs to be friction less perfectly circular rod,
I also adds Slip2K EWL after gently heating the all metal surface before re-assembly of the pivot. Needless to say 8 surfaces are all mirror polished to 2000 grit.
YMMV.1 -
Wow, Is all I can say.I was looking at getting a bugout for the past few months I did look at the description and specs.Notice that the lockbar was dlc coated titanium which intrigued me.Titanium...... humm......... exotic but the reports of galling are just alarming
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Got the bugout back today... They replaced the axis bar with one that had the dlc removed from the contact surfaces and looked like it had been hit with a torch because it had that rainbow look. Not grinding as horribly but still gritty. Was getting worse the more I flicked it just like last time so problem not solved at all.
I took the thing apart and heated the bar with a torch until red hot then dipped it in water. Polished the bar and tang with a dremel and reassembled. So far it is much better and less gritty. Theres still a very small spot that catches and has some grit but its about 90% better than it was after i got it back. Dont know how this knife is so popular with this glaring problem.
Is there anybody here I could pay to spin me up a steel axis bar on their lathe? I feel like thats the only long term solution.
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first post on this forum hi everybody
same problem here permanent marker on the tang contact point radius and axis bar no oil when braking in worked for me hope this helps best regards from the uk
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wayne bencmades posted:
first post on this forum hi everybody
same problem here permanent marker on the tang contact point radius and axis bar no oil when braking in worked for me hope this helps best regards from the uk
Welcome to the Benchmade Forum Wayne!
Thanks for chiming in on the subject.
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thanks for the welcome tim o
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/|\, Welcome Wayne.
I’ve not experienced any gulling with my Bugout but I don’t carry it often ( like when I don’t want to risk having my 940-1 or custom confiscated in NYC).
Just saw a Blade HQ video of their top selling knives of 2019 & the Bugout was #1 ( should mean big bonus for Jason again👍🏻)
I like the Bugout as is out of the box at it’s selling price. If I have to buy after market handles for $100 , then I prefer a 940-1501 ( or spend the extra $$ for a 940-1 no gulling).
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Anyone know the exact alloy that is used for the Axis bar?
This information is needed prior to any attempt to harden with heat. Your Ti could be worse off if you just heated to "really hot" and quenched in water.
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hi thanks for the welcome
940 are great knives steel lock bar so no gulling I have one and love it
wayne
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tu posted:
Anyone know the exact alloy that is used for the Axis bar?
This information is needed prior to any attempt to harden with heat. Your Ti could be worse off if you just heated to "really hot" and quenched in water.
Tu the Bailout uses the same alloy as the Bugout according to the Bailout's Announcement as shown above. Like Bill I haven't experienced any gulling with my Bailout and with most of my Bugouts and I've carried them and played with all of them enough to see it if were going to start. As well I have a number of other BMKs that I've added high quality Ti Axis bars that I've not as yet experienced any gulling as yet.
Maybe your on to something regarding the HT of different batches of Ti Axis Bars.
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/|\ I am a big fan of Ti for liners, pocket clips, & thumb studs & thumb discs. Besides gulling Ti can crunch ( be condensed if you bang it hard enough) & guessing here but are you folks having trouble with your Ti axis bars into snapping your blades open? I don’t do that as it adds extra stress on the parts of the knife & in a crisis situation where you get fat hands don’t want to depend on fine motor skills, so IMHO snapping your blade open is amateurish.
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