Big Folders
This old salt has had a sea change. Through most of my twenty year study of the "tactical folder", my opinion had been that a three and a half inch blade was pretty much ideal for maximum versatility, similar to the ideal set for the small hunter by the Loveless drop point, and others over centuries of game prep from hoof to mouth. A four inch blade could be good for harder use, or as a self-defense weapon, but about four inches is where tip control seems to start down the back side of the curve. Additionally, a blade much longer than four inches requires a handle significantly longer than the width of the hand. I always figured that if I was going to carry something that big, say we are speaking of a six inch handle, that I would prefer to carry a fixed blade with an overall length of, say, eight inches or so.
Time and certain other social pressures have combined to change my perspective on this recently. First, working in an office environment exclusively for the last one hundred and fifty years - okay, last ten years, it only seems like one hundred and fifty - has pushed me toward carrying EDC sized knives such as the 690, the Mini Barrage, the 525, and very recently the 484. Carrying those smaller knives preserves the social temperament at work, but what about when you actually need to cut something massive, like say a four inch diameter Casa de Oro super burrito with "the works". "The works" can really make a mess of the inner workings of your 2.9" inch Mini Barrage. Guacomole may be one of the most wonderful substances known to man, but not as a lubricant. So I began carrying...something larger. Something that would not usually see the light of day except under appropriate circumstances.
Which brings up another social pressure toward carrying a big folder, legal pressure. In CA, you cannot carry a fixed blade of any size concealed, but you can carry a folding knife of ANY size concealed. Uh-huh, any size.
Possibly as a by product wanting to carry appropriate sized folders, I've started to become less inclined to open carry fixed blades except when in outdoor situations. All this has been pushing me to carry a three inch EDC folder, and a really BIG folder for the rest of the stuff.
One thing that kept me out of the BIG folder thing for a long time was locks. There weren't any. Not really. Most big knives were made by companies who didn't necessarily set the bar for reliability, and their big knives were exclusively back locks. Yeah, they were okay for back locks, would actually hold through some abuse...the first few times, but then it would be over. The only knife, until recently, that measured up was a liner lock with a LAWK lock lock. But that situation has changed recently too. Now there are some BIG knives on the market, with pretty impressive improvements to the old back lock design.
So, on today's market, there are some really serious BIG folders. There are the Cold Steel Talwar XL, and Recon 1 XL with the Tri-ad lock. Yes, I have sneered at Cold Steel knives for fifteen years too, but this Tri-ad thing is a revolution in the reliability of the back lock. The things have five and a half inch blades. The handle design on the Recon 1 XL is brilliant. It is so ergonomic that you instantly see the two inches of extra handle as an asset instead of a liability. Next Spyderco has the Tatanka, which in old Lakota language means The Tank. The Power Lock is not quite as bulletproof as the Tri-ad, but it is formidable.
So how 'bout it, Benchmade, do you think there is a chance of a folder coming out with at least a five inch cutting edge, and a tactical mission for us Californians to carry along with our 484s and 94Xs?
Time and certain other social pressures have combined to change my perspective on this recently. First, working in an office environment exclusively for the last one hundred and fifty years - okay, last ten years, it only seems like one hundred and fifty - has pushed me toward carrying EDC sized knives such as the 690, the Mini Barrage, the 525, and very recently the 484. Carrying those smaller knives preserves the social temperament at work, but what about when you actually need to cut something massive, like say a four inch diameter Casa de Oro super burrito with "the works". "The works" can really make a mess of the inner workings of your 2.9" inch Mini Barrage. Guacomole may be one of the most wonderful substances known to man, but not as a lubricant. So I began carrying...something larger. Something that would not usually see the light of day except under appropriate circumstances.
Which brings up another social pressure toward carrying a big folder, legal pressure. In CA, you cannot carry a fixed blade of any size concealed, but you can carry a folding knife of ANY size concealed. Uh-huh, any size.
One thing that kept me out of the BIG folder thing for a long time was locks. There weren't any. Not really. Most big knives were made by companies who didn't necessarily set the bar for reliability, and their big knives were exclusively back locks. Yeah, they were okay for back locks, would actually hold through some abuse...the first few times, but then it would be over. The only knife, until recently, that measured up was a liner lock with a LAWK lock lock. But that situation has changed recently too. Now there are some BIG knives on the market, with pretty impressive improvements to the old back lock design.
So, on today's market, there are some really serious BIG folders. There are the Cold Steel Talwar XL, and Recon 1 XL with the Tri-ad lock. Yes, I have sneered at Cold Steel knives for fifteen years too, but this Tri-ad thing is a revolution in the reliability of the back lock. The things have five and a half inch blades. The handle design on the Recon 1 XL is brilliant. It is so ergonomic that you instantly see the two inches of extra handle as an asset instead of a liability. Next Spyderco has the Tatanka, which in old Lakota language means The Tank. The Power Lock is not quite as bulletproof as the Tri-ad, but it is formidable.
So how 'bout it, Benchmade, do you think there is a chance of a folder coming out with at least a five inch cutting edge, and a tactical mission for us Californians to carry along with our 484s and 94Xs?
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Po, Amen. Verily, I say Amen. 
In full disclosure, I have looked longingly at the Tatanka. Many times. And that Ulize police folder thing too.
Truthfully, though, if BM would make an XL Presidio with a nearly four inch blade, I think that would be about perfect for me. If there was a Contego variation with a spear or drop point blade, that might scratch the itch too. Although in fairness, if there were an XL Presidio and a drop point Contego, I would buy both. Heck, I'd probably buy spares of each as well.
I think getting up around a 5 inch blade would make a folder impractical for my uses, but I'd most likely buy a BM that size for the coolness factor.0 -
I like them, the mo' bigger the mo' better!
The 610 Rukus is still one or my favorites! I'd like to try the pocket rocket from Sibert released in the Gold Class. I'd be willing to run either of those out to 5" but at that point I'd rather a fixed blade... especially after snapping a 610 blade with some hard use.0 -
PO with Ca laws can understand the appeal / need for a big ( say blade greater than 4")
For me 4" is top limit as to what I look for because
(1) that's legal limit in both NY & NJ;
(2) found based on my hand size opening anything bigger size slows me down
(3) ratio weight to strength over 4" weight of a folder seems to surpass weight of a fixed blade & the fixed blade is stronger. Also when a folder gets that big I do not find pants pocket carry to comfortable, so prefer a belt pouch and if I going to strap on a belt pouch it may as well be a fixed blade which opens faster. Regards Bill0 -
quote:Originally posted by Trailboss:
Po, Amen. Verily, I say Amen.
In full disclosure, I have looked longingly at the Tatanka. Many times. And that Ulize police folder thing too.
Truthfully, though, if BM would make an XL Presidio with a nearly four inch blade, I think that would be about perfect for me. If there was a Contego variation with a spear or drop point blade, that might scratch the itch too. Although in fairness, if there were an XL Presidio and a drop point Contego, I would buy both. Heck, I'd probably buy spares of each as well.
I think getting up around a 5 inch blade would make a folder impractical for my uses, but I'd most likely buy a BM that size for the coolness factor.
I'm not carrying any knife called a Tatanka...LOL0 -
Po have you tried the voyager xl. I have in tanto and love it. 0 -
In my heart, I want to say yes to Mega Adamas. Adamas with 4"+ blade. I own 741 Onslaught (4.28" blade), and it is just about the upper limit of one handed folder in length Luckly, it is thin blade, so it weigh 6.96 oz. Anything more than 7oz may not be as comfortable.
The search continues, and as TB did, I too looked at Police3, Tatanka, etc. I have never warmed up with ColdS.
It may be practical limit in folder with 4"+.0 -
Thanks for all replies...except for fastjan who seems to be sneezing "He's crazy!"
I understand that about 3.5 inches is best for maximum utility. What I'm looking at is big blade concealability, tactical power, a five inch cutting edge that could sever...many things, in a single swipe, yet scareth not the sheeps or the goats. I guess, if your EDC is a 710 and a .45, sure, nevermind...
Verily, thou mayest not comprehend the need for such power until thou hast held it in your hand. Call me Dances with Crazy, but I have felt the power, and it is good.
Dang you, T-boss, now I can't stop talking in King James biblish.
A four inch Presidio would be amazing, fantastic. But I'm talking a whole nuther level past that...I'm talking a 5.5" Contego. Which just might work out amazingly well with the Contego's handle profile.0 -
Here is my two knife carry strategy, one from the EDC category and one from the OMG category. 
I need a Benchmade for the OMG category!
EDC:
OMG:
EDC-OMG:
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I must admit having 4"+ folder is beneficial for me. Here is state of WA, you can't conceal carry fixed blade, but no length limit (except those cities which restricts length, such as Seattle) So, the town I live, theoretically I can carry 10" folder. Being practical, longer the blade become, the handle need to be very ergonomically fitting.
Let me deviate off the length arguments and talk about one handed strike. I don't know about you guys, but during kendo / martial arts practice, I have felt many times that the damage can be inflicted to the target with one handed strike depends on how tightly that weapon is alighted with your forearm. Also no matter how strong your grip is, when you do this all day, you won't be able to do that next day.
In any case, there are limitation in grip strength and contoured grip makes the difference here. SO, I would like to see the grip of folding knife to be very "form fitting" to your hand. Perhaps like one of those like Hogue grip for the pistol?0 -
Po whats the top knife in your OMG category picture? 0 -
I really love 4" folders, and almost exclusively carry knives around that size. I have found that anything much over 4.5" makes the handle very ungainly and frankly a bit ugly looking. I got rid of all my giant Cold Steel knives for that reason, though otherwise they were all solid knives. I too wish BM would offer a few more larger sized knives. Unfortunately I don't think they sell that well, so we may be SOL. 
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After utilizing a diverse range of folder sizes over the years, I’ve come to love the 4” blade. I feel that it’s perfect for any task (EDC, self-defense, sandwich-slicing , etc, etc...
Seriously though, I don’t even carry a fixed blade when hunting anymore, it’s not necessary. A 4” folder will do just fine..
I feel that anything larger would be overkill and impossible to justify in regard to LE.. (Especially in CA. Yes, the State law allows a folder with an unspecified length limit, however, your local county/municipality will bite you in the a**.. It’s mostly under 3” state-wide - unfortunately for us, even LE have been given stricter policies on knives in CA)
4” is already pushing it (which sucks), 5.5” would be unnecessary for my uses and I would never be able to whip it out in public without raising the national guard
Just realized that a 5.5” Contego folder would have a longer blade than the current fixed contego, that’d be crazy to see and hold LOL0 -
Over time your preferred blade length is bound to change. Mine did. I used to focus on 4" blades almost exclusively, but now, looking at what I usually carry, it will range from 3.25" to 4".
I just came off a weekend deer hunt. With dozens of fixed blades to choose from, the one I packed had a 3.5" blade, called the Spyderco Street Beat. Why? because it is just lots easier to pack a smaller fixed blade.
I prefer to clean deer with a fixed blade just so I don't fill the folder action with guts n blood.0 -
quote:Originally posted by fastjan:
I just came off a weekend deer hunt. With dozens of fixed blades to choose from, the one I packed had a 3.5" blade, called the Spyderco Street Beat. Why? because it is just lots easier to pack a smaller fixed blade.
Agreed, I always liked using my 201 & 180 over the years. Perfect size and easy to clean.. For the times I brought a folder and was lucky enough to get something.. It was always a pain to rinse out and clean. I would always have to do a once over when I got home.
Then again, the folders I do use now for the outdoors are dedicated hard-users.. I don’t care that much about them and I just enjoy using them
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Once more, I understand what works best for game dressing and all around utility. But that doesn't cover everything.
It's not that all I want to carry these days is 5" folders...Hence my advocation of carrying both an EDC and an OMG.
There are two factors behind my current appreciation for a five inch blade. The previous year of so has been a search for the ideal outdoor fixed blade. Wanting something that I can use for big cuts and hard use as well as woodcraft type stuff. This has caused me to dial in on five inch blades. My M2 Nim is actually just about perfect, but I wanted something just a tad longer. The other driver is self-defense. A five inch blade is just more capable and effective.
Under California state law, there is no length restriction on folding knives except on school and some other state property. LA municipal and LA county restrict open carry to under three inches. SF and Oakland have similar codes, but there is no municipal code on knives where I live, or in my home town.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
Under California state law, there is no length restriction on folding knives except on school and some other state property. LA municipal and LA county restrict open carry to under three inches. SF and Oakland have similar codes, but there is no municipal code on knives where I live, or in my home town.
Damnnn you’re lucky
Pretty much every city in the Bay Area has a less than 3” requirement..
Luckily cops I know don’t go after your average citizen, they generally look for your average poobutt0 -
Have you actually looked up the municipal code in your city?
There are a lot of rumors going around out there.
For instance, I'd have to refresh my memory on the LA code to be sure if the restriction is on "dirks and daggers", in which case it may not apply to folders...0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
Have you actually looked up the municipal code in your city?
There are a lot of rumors going around out there.
I’ve spent numerous hours reading actual penal/muni code for my area just for that reason. People on other boards don’t know squat and regurgitate false information all the time.
In the bay area (CA) it’s simple, larger cities set the precedent (SF).. All the smaller towns/cities follow..
All of my neighboring cites are less than 3” only for folders.
Also like you stated, no public (state/gov) buildings.. Schools are another no go (Exception being colleges, each college is different and you have to look up their policy on the matter).
Knife laws rarely change here in CA, unfortunately.. If anyone is interested in their local knife laws, research through legit gov websites for actual codes/regs..
*Edited for content..0 -
Just curious. What is the "need" of 5" plus blade aside from hunting, etc?
I know what the "want" and "nice to have"s are.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Trailboss:
Po, Amen. Verily, I say Amen.
In full disclosure, I have looked longingly at the Tatanka. Many times. And that Ulize police folder thing too.
Truthfully, though, if BM would make an XL Presidio with a nearly four inch blade, I think that would be about perfect for me. If there was a Contego variation with a spear or drop point blade, that might scratch the itch too. Although in fairness, if there were an XL Presidio and a drop point Contego, I would buy both. Heck, I'd probably buy spares of each as well.
I think getting up around a 5 inch blade would make a folder impractical for my uses, but I'd most likely buy a BM that size for the coolness factor.
looks like you got your wish0 -
"...my kingdom for a 5.5" satin finish Adamas manual folder in M390..." (with a more aggressive and less utilitarian grind, similar to the sleeker approach taken with the auto version, but beyond) 0 -
^ it would show Cold Steel what time it is and how an extra large folder should be done, proper 0 -
If any of you are scuba divers or aspiring scuba divers, you may wish to see just how corrosion resistant CTS-XHP happens to be, as this has resided upon the bottom of the ocean since its smooth polished aluminum bolster area joke of a finger choil rendered me "Frankenfinger" due to its failure to serve its intended purpose. Unless their rhetoric and descriptions are BS and it was really meant to serve as a $250.00 wall decoration. As far as factory edge sharpness was concerned, it was second only to my Bedlam. In all seriousness, they should advise that if one finds themselves with sweaty hands, apply talcalm powder or wear certain types of grip and/or protective gloves. AND UTILIZE SABER GRIP, ONLY. Cliche, played out phrase is about to land..........EPIC FAIL. SEE PHOTOS IN THE WOUNDS THREAD. BENCHMADE: SHOW THEM WHAT TIME IT IS. MAKE A CLASSY, AMERICAN MADE, FULLY FUNCTIONAL FOLDING MONSTROSITY.0 -
Oooh-oooo...I'm afraid to look... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
Oooh-oooo...I'm afraid to look...
/|\ PO, you've lots of experience with large folders, any recommendations that save digits?0
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