Knife sharpening question...
Hi all:
I've seen a few instructional youtube videos that recommend intentionally dulling your knife on a sharpening stone before starting. I assumed this helps with getting that burr necessary for a sharp knife. I have only tried sharpening directly. I can't bring myself to intentionally dulling a knife on a stone. It's counterintuitive.
Anyone has any thoughts about this?
Thanks!
I've seen a few instructional youtube videos that recommend intentionally dulling your knife on a sharpening stone before starting. I assumed this helps with getting that burr necessary for a sharp knife. I have only tried sharpening directly. I can't bring myself to intentionally dulling a knife on a stone. It's counterintuitive.
Anyone has any thoughts about this?
Thanks!
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/|\ The follow through logic would suggest you bang your fender with a sledge Hammer before waxing. 
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quote:Originally posted by Bill Hammer:
/|\ The follow through logic would suggest you bang your fender with a sledge Hammer before waxing.
Hehehehehe!!
...yeah, that would just be wasting steel. I guess the idea is, you take out any chips, or any weak steel...but I think just sharpening will do that just fine.0 -
Thanks for the quick responses. I think Po wins for best answer. If your knife had chips, I'm guessing it's faster to get them out by putting the edge right on the stone vs. an angle. So...if the logic follows, you will have an even edge to form your burr on. I suppose the bigger the chips the more likely that intentionally dulling the knife on the stone is a faster way to an even edge. Hope I got this right. 0 -
Dulling your knife before sharpening sounds stupid to me.
Would definitely take longer to sharpen it......
What and where are you reading ????......LOL0 -
quote:Originally posted by dj:
Dulling your knife before sharpening
Yeah... Don’t do that.0 -
Agreed with the rest, it sounds like a waste of time and energy to intentionally damage your blade prior to caring for it.
I suppose if the edge is severely damaged it might make sense, but just to touch up a less than shaving sharp edge it seems simply stupid to me.0 -
I'll also agree with the rest, I've been sharpening my blades for some time now and have become very good at it, I just can't see the logic behind what you mentioned.
There is a method to sharpen a damaged edge, starting with a very coarse stone and then moving up on grit scale until you get the desired edge, and stropping to get the finished edge.
The edge does not necessarily have to be polished, I prefer a bit of a toothy edge, stropping brings it all together and puts that hair popping edge at the end.
If there is still a bit of an uneven edge because of previous chipping, don't worry about, I don't, you could sharpen it away but then your removing a lot of steel.
Good luck.0 -
Thanks for sharing your experience. That was my hunch as well. I've got another newbie question for y'all:
How does the grind and blade angle affect the sharpness? For example, is a full flat grind more sharp than a sabre-grind? I can get my Paramilitary 2 way more sharp than my Griptilian clip point. Would the Griptilian sheepsfoot hollow grind be more sharp than the clip point?0 -
now you are starting togetinto the mechanics of the primary bevel, thickness behind the edge, and general blade geometry.
Depending on the depth of the blade (distance between the edge itself and the spine), a deeper bevel, like a FFG will be a more acute angle than will a saber grind will be and will thus have more mechanical advantage to slice through a tougher material - assuming total blade depth and thickness are equal.
However, the cross-sectional area of the saber grind will frequently be greater than the FFG, and will be stronger for lateral stresses (side to side).
Generally speaking, comparing blades of equal thickness and depth, the FFG will be better slicer.
If you compare an axe to a scalpel (yes,a very extreme example) the scalpel has a full flat as compared to the axes wedge (sabre) profile. one slices and the other does not.
Now, with thickness behind the edge. This is the thickness of the blade where the edge is put on the primary bevel, think of a blade that has been machined and beveled but has had no edge applied yet. The thicker the leading edge of the primary bevel, the stronger the edge will be and conversly the thinner it is the weaker it will be.
Now, when the edge is applied (again all else being equal) the blade with the thin leading bevel will have a much narrower edge than would be present on the thicker blade. Thinner edge == better slicing ability - but at the cost of strength. Go too thin and the edge will be prone to chipping easily.
Generally speaking, blades with a thinner leading edge will slice better.
Again, think of the axe vs the scalpel. The axe has far greater thickness behind the edge and can take a huge mount of abuse, whereas the scalpel is extremely thin and would likely become severely damaged should anything tougher than an apple be cut.
Of course, there are many other factors that affect slicing ability; Blade thickness, primary bevel depth, edge type, edge angles, even steel types and coatings.0 -
Thanks for a great explanation Lightning. On a paper test after sharpening, you are measuring the micro bevel's sharpness right? If a FFG and sabre grind knife are both adequately sharpened, they should cut through the paper equally effective but...I'm assuming the difference in grind will affect the smoothness of the serrations of the paper. So...my PM2 will slice more cleanly through paper than my Griptilian, right? Let me know if I understand this correctly. My Griptilian will slice paper but I need to be more precise with the angle of the blade relative to the paper. Otherwise, my Griptilian will either slip and crease the paper or it will tear instead of slice. I've sharpened my Griptilian to a 17 degree microbevel with my Work Sharp. When the edge hits the paper right, it will slice right through. With my PM2, I don't need to be as careful of the blade to paper angle. Am I making sense or am I not sharpening my Griptilian sufficiently to perform like the PM2?Thanks in advance! 0 -
Personally I couldn't give a crap about how my knives cut paper, that's what scissors are for.
as far as I am concerned mirror edges, micro bevels, and all the rest of that jazz are much to-do about nothing. In the real world, where I use my knives, the only thing that matters is that my edges are properly sharp and not in the slightest bout how pretty or shiny the edge is.
I don't bother measuring angles to the tenth of a degree, polishing to the nth micron, or anything like that. All that is simply not worth my time or effort as the knife will just need sharpening again anyway. I just focus on keeping things consistent abd even, and proper cutting edges just follow naturally.0 -
Not to sound dismissive of those who do want to go to those lengths, all I am is saying that I have decided that spending 3 hours sharpening a knife only to have that scientifically sharpened edge blunted at the very sight of corrugated cardboard is not a good use of my time.
I would rather spend a half hour putting on a utility edge that shaves hair suits my needs just fine.0 -
/|\ Wow 3 hours! Even 30 minutes! I got to believe with today’s tools & minimum of skill you can have a very sharp knife in 5 to 10 minutes. 0 -
No worries Lightning. I'm just trying to learn and not...damage an expensive piece of metal not understanding the design of the blade. From what I gather from your response on grinds, I shouldn't expect my Griptilian to slice through medium including paper the same way as my PM2. In other words, no amount of sharpening nor the blade angle of the secondary bevel will change this. Unless of course I change the grind of my Griptilian. 0 -
I think Lightning pretty much summerized it, great minds think alike , but seriously, it's true that some knives are just better slicers than other mainly because of blade geomatry and grind.
Sharpening is an aquired skill, I think necessary for any knife collector and user, I personally don't take more than 15-20 minutes to sharpen a blade and no more than 4-5 tops 10 minutes to touch an edge by stropping.
Sometimes it actually takes me more time to set up my Lansky equipment, than to actually bring the knife back to hair popping sharp.
Last note, with a good sharping you can bring your Griptilian to slicing transparent thin slices of ripe tomato, trust me.0 -
quote:Originally posted by archer:
I think Lightning pretty much summerized it, great minds think alike, but seriously, it's true that some knives are just better slicers than other mainly because of blade geomatry and grind.
Sharpening is an aquired skill, I think necessary for any knife collector and user, I personally don't take more than 15-20 minutes to sharpen a blade and no more than 4-5 tops 10 minutes to touch an edge by stropping.
Sometimes it actually takes me more time to set up my Lansky equipment, than to actually bring the knife back to hair popping sharp.
Last note, with a good sharping you can bring your Griptilian to slicing transparent thin slices of ripe tomato, trust me.
Yup0
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