New Pocket Clip
I posed a question regarding the latest "black oxide" clips I requested from BM. The clips appeared to be different. Shiny as opposed to matte. Wondered if there was a difference in finish process or any other difference in clip all together. The question had failed to be addressed.
I dont remembered what thread the question was in. I do remember thinking it was "small things". Maybe so, however... there does appear to be a difference.
Was just trying to slightly bend clip as to bring in contact with the scale, as it was slightly raised when screwed down. Have done it before, more than a few times w/ various other clips...This particular did not bend and snap...it just snapped. Seems to be of a different material or process. MIM perhaps. Seems cast.
Cause for alarm? I dont think so. Cause for concern?...you tell me?
I dont remembered what thread the question was in. I do remember thinking it was "small things". Maybe so, however... there does appear to be a difference.
Was just trying to slightly bend clip as to bring in contact with the scale, as it was slightly raised when screwed down. Have done it before, more than a few times w/ various other clips...This particular did not bend and snap...it just snapped. Seems to be of a different material or process. MIM perhaps. Seems cast.
Cause for alarm? I dont think so. Cause for concern?...you tell me?
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I really like split arrow in what looks like black chrome too. Talking to Benchmade rep I was advised it a boron oxcide finish& bad news they don't made them any more. choices are a flat black or a sliver Regards to all Bill Hammer 0 -
The clip on my custom griptilian I got last month broke in 3 pieces. I replaced with an older one I had laying around. 0 -
I'm shocked to hear this news I was also curious about the clips on my new 940-1 & 710-141. They appear to be a new finish of the old standard black clip. In my thoughts I would have made both clips spit arrow to show more of the CF and c-tek in the handles but not if these new clips break so much easier! I'm going to call BM next week to see if I can get any info about these new "break-away" clips. It must be another safety item that our government has recently mandated.
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they still make the other one i believe the one your looking for just says Benchmade not Benchmade USA 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ghostlead3r:
they still make the other one i believe the one your looking for just says Benchmade not Benchmade USA
The clip that is pictured does indeed say BENCHMADE USA0 -
That's pretty chintzy, the old solid ones were tough as nails, hope this isn't the new normal. 0 -
I find it hard to believe it just snapped like that ........
Must of been Rockwell at 200 ..........lol
I think its just a fluke ........or pot metal
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quote:Originally posted by dj:
I find it hard to believe it just snapped like that ........
Must of been Rockwell at 200 ..........lol
I think its just a fluke ........or pot metal
Im not sure. Would think the chances of it being a fluke are slim, the chances of being "pot" metal more likely. Powder metallurgy, injected molded, pot metal....pot metal all the same.
If I had to guess, Id say there has been a less expensive way of manufacturing the clips. The bottom line an all.. Seems reminiscent of the back spacer issues of the 810 fracturing.
While I appreciate the free clips, I would much rather pay for the older style clips than one of these for free.
All speculation mind you. If these are indeed MIM parts (seen the practice in the firearm manufacturing world) I understand the implementation of the practice...however I believe it creates inferior parts. Load/stress bearing or not. And before you think or state "what difference does it make" (if that statement doesnt make you nauseous and angry, dont know what will) this "part" is meant to secure your knife. What it would mean to have your knife become unsecured...would mean different things to different people...Important? or No big deal?
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It wouldn't be cast, most likely stamped and pressed from a very large sheet. Probably something fairly common, a hardenable semi stainless steel, 5150 maybe (just a blind guess).
I suspect they got a batch with a bad heat treat, not enough temper.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Lightning:
It wouldn't be cast, most likely stamped and pressed from a very large sheet. Probably something fairly common, a hardenable semi stainless steel, 5150 maybe (just a blind guess).
I suspect they got a batch with a bad heat treat, not enough temper.
This is what I am guessing as pressing it from a 'mild' steel sheet would probably be the least expensive and easiest way to replicate a gazillion of the same (non-complex) part. I suppose it is possible they could be in something like 3xx SS like CRK hardware (but not clips), but it seems unlikely given the cost would be high and BM has always been generous with the clips.
Based on the OPs post, the way this failed is a textbook example of a MIM failure, and I am 100% in agreement with the comments on most MIM. But to my understanding, any steel with a botched heat treatment can suffer a catastrophic failure in this fashion with zero warning, correct? It seems MIM would not be used for such a simple part like a clip that could be pressed?
I generally use custom titanium clips on my BMs and other knives. I like how they can be anodized, how they resist scratching, and think titanium alloy has a major advantage over most steel alloys for this type of application in which lateral flex is going to be very common and repetitive.
I would really like to see Benchmade start offering factory titanium clips, even if they only sell them separately as an upgrade.0 -
Ti clips would not be as strong, unless they were thicker. And, of course Ti is a lot more expensive than 410 stainless steel, which is what the clips are probably made out of.
My guess would be that the bending process would involve heating and stamping. At that point, they might be pretty hard, so perhaps they do a quick and dirty oven tempering cycle on them, with the goal of getting a spring temper on them.
My guess would be that clip fell out of the box on the way to the tempering oven.
Then again, maybe 410 SS doesn't contain enough carbon to harden beyond spring hard, and doesn't need a temper cycle, I dunno.
Obviously, there is no way Benchmade would intentionally ship ANY part with expected performance like that. The result would be the very expensive shipment of replacements through the customer survice department. This is an anomaly of some kind.0 -
Not sure why this is bothering me so much. Granted, MIM theory doesnt make a whole lot of sense, cost efficiency wise, for such a simple part. It was a quick hypothesis based on the nature of the fail related to other parts and tools I had experienced this w/. looking at the exposed cross section of the material, seemed very granular as well.
I thought I recalled there being two nubs, very slight, on each side of the older clips. I assumed these were from the stamping process, which are absent from these newer versions. Again, seemed like a different process. Looking at the sides of the failed clip under a glass, they do seem to be sheared, so...that would contradict any "molded" theory.
To state I have very little metallurgy and or tempering knowledge would be an understatement. However, the problem caused by that part of the process, or lack of that part of the process makes a lot of sense. Again, cant really explain why this was irking me so much..lol. I do not believe BM is knowingly shipping any inferior parts.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bill Hammer:
I really like split arrow in what looks like black chrome too. Talking to Benchmade rep I was advised it a boron oxcide finish& bad news they don't made them any more. choices are a flat black or a sliver Regards to all Bill Hammer
Those were already hard to get back in 2007.
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quote:Originally posted by Lightning:
It wouldn't be cast, most likely stamped and pressed from a very large sheet. Probably something fairly common, a hardenable semi stainless steel, 5150 maybe (just a blind guess).
I suspect they got a batch with a bad heat treat, not enough temper.
Something like this is the more likely explanation. No one would do these clips as MIM. Stamped from sheet metal is most likely, so a fault in the sheet steel is the most likely explanation.
Of course, I could be wrong...0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
Ti clips would not be as strong, unless they were thicker. And, of course Ti is a lot more expensive than 410 stainless steel, which is what the clips are probably made out of.
My guess would be that the bending process would involve heating and stamping. At that point, they might be pretty hard, so perhaps they do a quick and dirty oven tempering cycle on them, with the goal of getting a spring temper on them.
My guess would be that clip fell out of the box on the way to the tempering oven.
Then again, maybe 410 SS doesn't contain enough carbon to harden beyond spring hard, and doesn't need a temper cycle, I dunno.
Obviously, there is no way Benchmade would intentionally ship ANY part with expected performance like that. The result would be the very expensive shipment of replacements through the customer survice department. This is an anomaly of some kind.
I find in regards to folding knives that titanium tends to be better than steel in the sense that the titanium can withstand frequent flexing/lateral stress very well, which clips commonly see.0 -
Yes, but for practical marketing reasons - cost-benefit in other words - what you see almost entirely in production knives is stainless steel, and it works just fine 99.999% of the time or better. 0 -
I see what you are saying...BM is very generous with clips and they probably couldn't be if they were made of titanium.
On an unrelated note, I wish they still did the black oxide clips. The finish on them is soooo durable over painted.0
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