Sharpening M390
First let me say I am a M4 fan,I think it's a great steel. But curriousity got the best of me yesterday and I decided to sharpen my nib 730-1202 Ares that I picked up at Blade. The ease of sharpening this thing was amazing,carried it to a polished edge in less than 15 min..What I'm wanting to know is if anyone is useing and resharpening M390 and how it is holding up..Thanks
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At bench Ares with 40 degree edge M390 for me is like Sebensas s35VN at 35 degree. Edge retention pretty good and its sharpening easy with fine Arcansas. When i try to cut bamboo for 30 sec (blade became hot) m390 refuse to shave. When i make 3 cut of aluminium it refuse to clear slice office paper. I think its good balance for EDC knife. I like. 0 -
Then my little tests will be complete you can find it Basselard.ru 0 -
I'd love to hear from more folks with experience using and re-edging M390. I suppose we all have our favorites, and for me I'm probably more influence by my love of the Stryker than the steel, but I find the old D2 just plain works, day in and day out. But I hear the praises of M390 "Super Steel." Unfortunately, my experience in these Ares suggests that the edge wears down pretty quickly. Guys with more experience--tell me where I'm going wrong! 0 -
1. Let's таке Playboy (look at picture- scotch-tape only at middle of tube!!! not in cut place- to easy fluffing of material).
2. Sharp your M390 knife to shaving.
3. Cut tubed Playboy twice (no further 1cm FROM END OF TUBE
3,5 CLEAN !!! edge with zippo- gazoline to remove clue and other polygrafic materials.
4. Show your result in this topic:
4.1 edge geometry (thickness of the cutting edge and angle).
4.2. after 1st cut.
4.3 after 2 cut.
(can it shave ? can it cut office paper clear ?)
P.S. its not so f***n easy like manila rope
P.P.S. I believe this test show only edge retention ability whith out effect of common blade geometry.0 -
With the ease of sharpening I am wondering if it was heat treated properly. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rolan Bedrosovich:
1. Let's таке Playboy (look at picture- scotch-tape only at middle of tube!!! not in cut place- to easy fluffing of material).
2. Sharp your M390 knife to shaving.
3. Cut tubed Playboy twice (no further 1cm FROM END OF TUBE
3,5 CLEAN !!! edge with zippo- gazoline to remove clue and other polygrafic materials.
4. Show your result in this topic:
4.1 edge geometry (thickness of the cutting edge and angle).
4.2. after 1st cut.
4.3 after 2 cut.
(can it shave ? can it cut office paper clear ?)
P.S. its not so f***n easy like manila rope
P.P.S. I believe this test show only edge retention ability whith out effect of common blade geometry.
Good test, but Playboy is the last magazine I would slice up.
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quote:Originally posted by w30hammer:
With the ease of sharpening I am wondering if it was heat treated properly.
Funny, but I find myself having the very same thoughts...
Finally did some sharpening on one of my M390 AFCKs yesterday, and it went from kinda dull to shaving sharp in about ten strokes on med, ten strokes on fine, and ten strokes on the cardboard strop...about two minutes of work...
Really made me wonder how an edge that sharpened so easily could possibly hold that edge for very long...
It would be a first if there was anything wrong with the HT though...0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
It would be a first if there was anything wrong with the HT though...
Or... is this when they started to notice the problem with the heat treat warping the blades, and the result is a weaker HT? I noticed while sharpening my 581 that the tip seems "bent" somehow. Maybe the grinds just aren't even and it's an optical illusion, but it sure makes it hard to get an even sharpening on it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by loonybin:quote:Originally posted by Po:
It would be a first if there was anything wrong with the HT though...
Or... is this when they started to notice the problem with the heat treat warping the blades, and the result is a weaker HT? I noticed while sharpening my 581 that the tip seems "bent" somehow. Maybe the grinds just aren't even and it's an optical illusion, but it sure makes it hard to get an even sharpening on it.
I noticed the same thing on my 581 and also my 805-1101, I can't tell if it's actually bent or if the grind is just a little weird at the tip.
It's only about the last 1/16" of the blade and it's only noticeable if your looking at it closely in good lighting, but something is a bit off and I've only seen it on these two knives, which are both M390.0 -
Anyone have any updates or additional thoughts on this issue? 0 -
I use a Sharpmaker to sharpen my 730-1203 Ares. Once sharp it stays that way a long time. I don't find m390 difficult to sharpen. It does seem to take a bit longer than s30v or vg10. But getting a good edge on a Sharpmaker was easy. I do use the diamond rods to start with. And I run through the medium and fine rods. I then finish with the ultra fine rods. The last step I use is a leather strop. At the end my m390 is popping hairs off my arm. I like it much better then my s30v,vg10 and D2 knives. My cpm m4 knives are right up cthere with the m390 on edge holding. The only problem with m4 is corrosion. I live near the gulf coast. So I have take extra care of my m4. But, I have made it a habit to make sure all my knives are taken care of. So rust hasnt been an issue on any of my blades. If I had to chose only one steel for all my knives it would be m390. It is good stuff. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mley1:
I use a Sharpmaker to sharpen my 730-1203 Ares. Once sharp it stays that way a long time. I don't find m390 difficult to sharpen. It does seem to take a bit longer than s30v or vg10. But getting a good edge on a Sharpmaker was easy. I do use the diamond rods to start with. And I run through the medium and fine rods. I then finish with the ultra fine rods. The last step I use is a leather strop. At the end my m390 is popping hairs off my arm. I like it much better then my s30v,vg10 and D2 knives. My cpm m4 knives are right up cthere with the m390 on edge holding. The only problem with m4 is corrosion. I live near the gulf coast. So I have take extra care of my m4. But, I have made it a habit to make sure all my knives are taken care of. So rust hasnt been an issue on any of my blades. If I had to chose only one steel for all my knives it would be m390. It is good stuff.
Interesting you find M390 equal to M4 in edge holding. I have several M4's but no M390 yet.0 -
quote:Geocyclist wrote...Interesting you find M390 equal to M4 in edge holding. I have several M4's but no M390 yet.
The above table is taken from the article linked below.
http://www.bladeforums.com/for...-S30V-edge-retention0 -
Wow!
Twice as wear resistant as ZDP-189?
...I had no idea.0 -
Oh, I went and read the bladeforums article, and I see that the authors message was not that M390 is twice as wear resistant as ZDP-189, but this is his relative observation of edge deformation.
Still very interesting data.
Another interesting quote from the author:
One thing that fascinates me about this comparison is that, for a long time it's been clear that edge geometry is more important than alloy. I'm not sure if that is still clear to me. I can't help wondering if a blunter blade of M390 might not outcut a blade with better geometry, but lesser alloy. A battle for another day, I think.
I remember when Cliff Stamp was doing rigorous wear analysis back in the '90s, one conclusion he came to was that a fine edge wears just as well as a more blunt one in tests where there was no impact or lateral force, because the force required to cut was lower.0 -
Yes, but at least I can sharpen the first four. That aside, it's interesting to note M4 and M390 are on the same level. When I pick my M390 or M4 blade(s) for EDC tasks, I will add that none of them need sharpening (yet) and still seem to be a sharp as ever was. While I'm not perfectly comfortable with M390 in longer use, I'm really thrilled with M4.
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that is an interesting graph. I realize it is one persons opinion based on his use, but still very interesting. I would love to see him make a scale based on ease of sharpening of those same steels. That'd be particularly interesting to see how much different the order would be. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Geocyclist:quote:Originally posted by mley1:
I use a Sharpmaker to sharpen my 730-1203 Ares. Once sharp it stays that way a long time. I don't find m390 difficult to sharpen. It does seem to take a bit longer than s30v or vg10. But getting a good edge on a Sharpmaker was easy. I do use the diamond rods to start with. And I run through the medium and fine rods. I then finish with the ultra fine rods. The last step I use is a leather strop. At the end my m390 is popping hairs off my arm. I like it much better then my s30v,vg10 and D2 knives. My cpm m4 knives are right up cthere with the m390 on edge holding. The only problem with m4 is corrosion. I live near the gulf coast. So I have take extra care of my m4. But, I have made it a habit to make sure all my knives are taken care of. So rust hasnt been an issue on any of my blades. If I had to chose only one steel for all my knives it would be m390. It is good stuff.
Interesting you find M390 equal to M4 in edge holding. I have several M4's but no M390 yet.
I have 3 knives with m390, the Ares, a Spyderco Para 2 and a CF Millie. And, I have two in m4. I have a Contego and a Gayle Bradley.
I have used all of them for various tasks from gardening, to yard work, to fishing and cleaning fish, to food prep. I like both steels a lot. I like m390 better because of it's corrosion resistance. Living on the gulf, salt water and humidity is a big concern for me. So, I do treat my blades with a coating of light oil to prevent rust.
So far I've sharpened all the blades. Getting hair popping edges seems to be pretty easy on both steels for me. But, I must say that with the tasks I'm doing it sure seems like the Contego has kept that nice hair shaving edge longer than any of the other blades. Whether that's the heat treat of Benchmades, or the steel, or the geometry of the blade edge, I don't know. But, I like it. The GB doesn't seem to hold that hair popping edge as long. But, it's geometry is much different than the Contego's.
For food prep I seem to be reaching for the Contego more than any other blade. For fishing, and all around use I reach for mostly the Ares. The Spydies are taking a back seat to the Axis lock. I am loving the Axis lock.0 -
I know its a long way off but I plan to take mine to Blade next year to have the hardness tested just to satisfy my curiousity. 0 -
I will say this about the two knives I have: 520bk-1101 and my 581. The Presidio will roll the edge more easily than the Barrage. I've (slightly) reprofiled the Presidio, but it's at about 18-20º per side, so not very much for M4. Push cutting through green wood about 1/2" dia. (cutting slices out, not pushing through the whole thing) rolled it a bit in a couple spots and it no longer shaves hair. I was able to do more than that with my 581, and there was no rolling at all. The Presidio is the lower HT, though, not the higher HT of the Contego.
So far, I'm more impressed with M390, but that may be because of the HT. A Presidio in M390 would be incredibly awesome!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
Another interesting quote from the author:
One thing that fascinates me about this comparison is that, for a long time it's been clear that edge geometry is more important than alloy. I'm not sure if that is still clear to me. I can't help wondering if a blunter blade of M390 might not outcut a blade with better geometry, but lesser alloy. A battle for another day, I think.
From stuff I have read different steels perform better with different angles. Furthermore 15 degrees/side may be good for a thin, full flat ground but too shallow an angle for other blade geometries. I wish there was a simple rule for how to determine optimum angle given steel and blade geometry.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Geocyclist:quote:Originally posted by Po:
Another interesting quote from the author:
One thing that fascinates me about this comparison is that, for a long time it's been clear that edge geometry is more important than alloy. I'm not sure if that is still clear to me. I can't help wondering if a blunter blade of M390 might not outcut a blade with better geometry, but lesser alloy. A battle for another day, I think.
From stuff I have read different steels perform better with different angles. Furthermore 15 degrees/side may be good for a thin, full flat ground but too shallow an angle for other blade geometries. I wish there was a simple rule for how to determine optimum angle given steel and blade geometry.
There's more to it than just the steel and blade geometry. Use also factors into it. If it's going to be used for nothing but slicing, then thin is in. If it will be used for harder use such as carving & prying (say... making a notch in a stick), chopping, batoning, etc., then you want a more obtuse angle.0 -
On edge angles; in this month's Blade there was a photo of an angle/geometry gauge apparently made by Spyderco.
Any of you see this? I'll put the search in gear...that would be an interesting tool to own. It would make setting the angle a cinch.0 -
Joe, I would really like to see the info on that edge angle device. What I currently use is a hardwood block with precision drilled holes (to hold ceramic rods) for every even degree from 10 thru 30 degrees per side. I just do the sharpie thing and see which setting matches the edge angle perfectly, then I record that angle in my sharpening log. It let's me pull out a knife, find it in the log and know exactly where to set the ceramic rods for a quick tune-up. 
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Do a search FJ; 'Spyderco Edge Angle Guide ~ AG1' was exactly the item I saw...and the magazine wasn't Blade, I correct myself, it's Tactical Knives. FYI. 0 -
Reading further it's a discontinued item; but there must be something similar in 'print', this is a simple but effective tool. 0
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