Trickle-down is a Lie - Capitalism is Eating Itself
"Capitalism is the greatest tool for prosperity, if it is managed properly. But it tends inexorably toward inequality, concentration, and collapse..."
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Capitalism has to be tempered and balanced with Biblical compassion. That is the answer to this problem, Po. The answer is not to bring in socialism like these leftist attackers and haters of our smart President Donald J. Trump advocate for.
Free market capitalism when tempered with Judeo Christian compassion such as an understanding that we need to care for and help the needy, weak, disabled, and those who have been in unfortunate circumstances in life, that sort of thing, is the best system in this present fallen world.
An example would be a rich property developer who is a Christian who is convicted in his or her heart to not kick people out on the street but who understands "God wants me to compromise and give people a break and work with them." That sort of thing.
Things were going in this direction, actually, until the massive opposition by the secular humanist atheistic traitors of the 19th century and 20th century began to viciously oppose the Christian social reformers.
For example: William Wilburforce the evangelical Protestant in England who was instrumental in ending slavery. The Abolitionists were mostly Christians who consistently understood that it is a sin to enslave your fellow man. Old Testament servitude was NOT chattel slavery, like the Moslems and many Plantocrats and others carried out. Also, it was the Spanish and Portugese who began to enslave Africans more so than the British and Americans, but all slavery is wrong. And then there were the Muslim slavers who took even more Africans as well as Europeans and others as their slaves.
But here is what I am convinced of, friend:
If instead of opposing Biblical Christianity and Jewish values, the secular folks would have sided with the Christians, INCLUDING helping with Missionary efforts, then we would see an increasing end to racism and racist policies, and an increasing end to abuses of wealth and other things, and less homeless and desperate people.
Man needs something greater than himself that is real to carry this out: That is God and faith in God and His word.
Look at how before the missionaries came with the Gospel to places like New Guinea, the people were murdering and cannibalizing and cutting each other's heads off. This ended, except for those who still practice it illegally.
I can see in you a desire to see people helped who are needy and there to be social justice. The answer is not more atheistic secularism, but rather, the answer is the word of God and also people working together for compassionate endeavors.0 -
And the left’s answer to capitalism is communism, let us know how that turns out, thanks 0 -
quote:Originally posted by THEONEANDONLY:
And the left’s answer to capitalism is communism, let us know how that turns out, thanks
You are a credit to this forum.
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quote:Originally posted by Jedi:quote:Originally posted by THEONEANDONLY:
And the left’s answer to capitalism is communism, let us know how that turns out, thanks
You are a credit to this forum.
I do what I can,
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quote:Capitalism has to be tempered and balanced with Biblical compassion.
When is that going to start? What will that compassion look like? Charity is not an economy. Every time a progressive tries to put some Christian values into law, a Republican calls it socialism, communism. When will that change?
Snideness isn't going to help when the 80% of the wealth is in the top 20%. Trump's vulgar stupidity isn't going to fix anything. In order to have trade equity, you have to make stuff to sell in other countries. We have soy beans and Harleys. You think that's going to balance the scales?
The poor 80% are going to stop buying cars and TVs, and "free market capitalism" will be dead. We'll all be "communists" then. In France a while ago, the "communists" came for the rich folks with pitchforks. One way or another. Don't matter what names you call it when it's down to only the fascists and the starving. You all can go on rooting for the millionaires and billionaires as they suck the life blood out of the US economy just like they are teaching you on Fox Noise.
I'm not some doomsday theorist. Maybe we will do something progressive to get some of the wealth flowing back to the middle class. Maybe the worst will never come to pass. Maybe a Republican Congress will pass a living minimum wage, a $trillion infrastructure bill that puts a whole bunch of people in the US to work, and that is PAID FOR. Maybe pigs will fly.
Right now, the wealth is flowing steadily uphill, and the Christian goodness bills are not getting up for debate in the Congress. If nothing is done, the final conclusion is written plainly on the wall.
Invisible spirits won't help if the next 1929, the next 2008, happens at the same time as massive economic and population displacement due to climate change. That would be a perfect storm. We would be talking about Somalia, if not Venus. A hundred years maybe.0 -
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quote:Originally posted by Taxesblow:
Case closed.0 -
How much more should the top 10% pay? Serious question.
My mom paid into social security for over 50 years, she gets less than refugees who are imported, piss on your social justice, piss on your fake Christianity, piss on your hatred of Fox News that you blame for people not believing in your bull.0 -
quote:Originally posted by THEONEANDONLY:
...My mom paid into social security for over 50 years, she gets less than refugees who are imported...
Illegal immigrants don't get public assistance. If legal immigrants get public assistance, it isn't from Social Security, so different programs. My fake Christianiy? I'm an athiest. You are incoherent, just throwing out bile and bullshi+ now...typical wing nut troll. You have nothing to contribute to thought about the problem, only spewing anger and dogma.0 -
Back on topic, recent news articles on Amazon...Amazon is raking in money, drowning in cash, but unskilled workers get paid too little to survive, and many rely on food stamps and subsidies. Taxpayers are subsidizing Amazon by feeding their employees. I can't imagine how they get health care.
Same situation for Walmart employees was reported on in recent years. It's a common problem for lowest wage workers.
Let's start not with a tax, but a livable minimum wage. It is already being done in San Francisco and Seattle, maybe other places. Those cities are doing great.
https://www.newsweek.com/jeff-...s-food-stamps-7827140 -
Po, regarding a higher minimum wage, what is your response to those critics of it who claim it will lead to restaurants and businesses either closing, or, looking at alternatives to the higher-paid human workers, such as robot replacements?
Also, what do you think of the idea that has been put forth about a guaranteed minimum income for all citizens? Could that work or is it too much like socialism ?0 -
I'm not a proponent of necessarily having a minimum wage at all, but assuming we are going to have one, I am a proponent of the State's handling such matters or even local Governments as opposed to the feds.
State and local gov policies can be analyzed by other state and local gov's to see what works and follow what is proven.
Of course there will always be failed liberal policies that are claimed to have not worked only because they were not implemented on a larger scale. Some still believe Socialism will work if we just do it everywhere.0 -
Another point for more state and local gov control is that what might be good for some parts of the country may not be good for others.
A $15 minimum wage sounds outrageous to me, but when you adjust for the cost of living between San Francisco to here in North Carolina, $15/hr there would equate to about $8/hr here. That's not that far off the 7.25 min wage we already have.0 -
Unfortunately a higher minimum wage does not make people more competent or more valuable. 0 -
It’s going to be a long 8 years for some people..... 0 -
The solution is simple, cut welfare. People won’t work for pennies if they can’t get subsidized 0 -
San Francisco is not “doing great”
You need maps to navigate the city to avoid piles of crap and other human waste and biohazards.
https://www.dailywire.com/news...strians-hank-berrien
California also has the nations highest poverty rate
https://www.bizjournals.com/ph...y-rate-in-the-u.html
You really need to research this stuff0 -
Guys I love Po but he just loves to argue.
I have a feeling he argues the conservative side of an issue in a room full of liberals.0 -
quote:Originally posted by djsportland:
I have a feeling he argues the conservative side of an issue in a room full of liberals.
I don't think so.0 -
quote:Originally posted by djsportland:
Guys I love Po but he just loves to argue.
I have a feeling he argues the conservative side of an issue in a room full of liberals.
+10 -
/|\ Just imagine the loud heated debate if PO was alone in a room full of mirrors. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Benchmade154CM:
Capitalism has to be tempered and balanced with Biblical compassion. That is the answer to this problem, Po. The answer is not to bring in socialism like these leftist attackers and haters of our smart President Donald J. Trump advocate for.
Free market capitalism when tempered with Judeo Christian compassion such as an understanding that we need to care for and help the needy, weak, disabled, and those who have been in unfortunate circumstances in life, that sort of thing, is the best system in this present fallen world.
An example would be a rich property developer who is a Christian who is convicted in his or her heart to not kick people out on the street but who understands "God wants me to compromise and give people a break and work with them." That sort of thing.
Things were going in this direction, actually, until the massive opposition by the secular humanist atheistic traitors of the 19th century and 20th century began to viciously oppose the Christian social reformers.
For example: William Wilburforce the evangelical Protestant in England who was instrumental in ending slavery. The Abolitionists were mostly Christians who consistently understood that it is a sin to enslave your fellow man. Old Testament servitude was NOT chattel slavery, like the Moslems and many Plantocrats and others carried out. Also, it was the Spanish and Portugese who began to enslave Africans more so than the British and Americans, but all slavery is wrong. And then there were the Muslim slavers who took even more Africans as well as Europeans and others as their slaves.
But here is what I am convinced of, friend:
If instead of opposing Biblical Christianity and Jewish values, the secular folks would have sided with the Christians, INCLUDING helping with Missionary efforts, then we would see an increasing end to racism and racist policies, and an increasing end to abuses of wealth and other things, and less homeless and desperate people.
Man needs something greater than himself that is real to carry this out: That is God and faith in God and His word.
Look at how before the missionaries came with the Gospel to places like New Guinea, the people were murdering and cannibalizing and cutting each other's heads off. This ended, except for those who still practice it illegally.
I can see in you a desire to see people helped who are needy and there to be social justice. The answer is not more atheistic secularism, but rather, the answer is the word of God and also people working together for compassionate endeavors.
WOW, where to start?
I believe it has been a couple thousand years, enough time for a judeo christian based government/economy to be proven unattainable? However, the crusades & Spanish inquisition were close . A last hurrah of bronze age mythology.
Did the European swoop down and scour all of africa enslaving all they encountered, or did they purchase African slaves from there fellow Africans? But we can agree all slavery is wrong!
The missionaries did not come to the south Pacific with just the word of god, they also had muskets. The Maori were a society the was well balanced with there environment. They lived in harmony with there ecosystem. Not living beyond there sustainable resources. It is monotheism that has been the biggest blight on society.
Truth is truth. Mickey mouse & jesus christ have preached a lot of the same sermons. But i have never seen a great mouse crusade.
Tu
Son of sky and earth
Maori god of war, hunting, fishing, cultivation, & cooking0 -
Humanity will screw up any system given enough time. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:quote:Originally posted by THEONEANDONLY:
...My mom paid into social security for over 50 years, she gets less than refugees who are imported...
Illegal immigrants don't get public assistance. If legal immigrants get public assistance, it isn't from Social Security, so different programs. My fake Christianiy? I'm an athiest. You are incoherent, just throwing out bile and bullshi+ now...typical wing nut troll. You have nothing to contribute to thought about the problem, only spewing anger and dogma.
I suggest you do some research concerning your statement that illegal immigrants do not get any welfare. You are wrong.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Tu:quote:Originally posted by Benchmade154CM:
Capitalism has to be tempered and balanced with Biblical compassion. That is the answer to this problem, Po. The answer is not to bring in socialism like these leftist attackers and haters of our smart President Donald J. Trump advocate for.
Free market capitalism when tempered with Judeo Christian compassion such as an understanding that we need to care for and help the needy, weak, disabled, and those who have been in unfortunate circumstances in life, that sort of thing, is the best system in this present fallen world.
An example would be a rich property developer who is a Christian who is convicted in his or her heart to not kick people out on the street but who understands "God wants me to compromise and give people a break and work with them." That sort of thing.
Things were going in this direction, actually, until the massive opposition by the secular humanist atheistic traitors of the 19th century and 20th century began to viciously oppose the Christian social reformers.
For example: William Wilburforce the evangelical Protestant in England who was instrumental in ending slavery. The Abolitionists were mostly Christians who consistently understood that it is a sin to enslave your fellow man. Old Testament servitude was NOT chattel slavery, like the Moslems and many Plantocrats and others carried out. Also, it was the Spanish and Portugese who began to enslave Africans more so than the British and Americans, but all slavery is wrong. And then there were the Muslim slavers who took even more Africans as well as Europeans and others as their slaves.
But here is what I am convinced of, friend:
If instead of opposing Biblical Christianity and Jewish values, the secular folks would have sided with the Christians, INCLUDING helping with Missionary efforts, then we would see an increasing end to racism and racist policies, and an increasing end to abuses of wealth and other things, and less homeless and desperate people.
Man needs something greater than himself that is real to carry this out: That is God and faith in God and His word.
Look at how before the missionaries came with the Gospel to places like New Guinea, the people were murdering and cannibalizing and cutting each other's heads off. This ended, except for those who still practice it illegally.
I can see in you a desire to see people helped who are needy and there to be social justice. The answer is not more atheistic secularism, but rather, the answer is the word of God and also people working together for compassionate endeavors.
WOW, where to start?
I believe it has been a couple thousand years, enough time for a judeo christian based government/economy to be proven unattainable? However, the crusades & Spanish inquisition were close . A last hurrah of bronze age mythology.
Did the European swoop down and scour all of africa enslaving all they encountered, or did they purchase African slaves from there fellow Africans? But we can agree all slavery is wrong!
The missionaries did not come to the south Pacific with just the word of god, they also had muskets. The Maori were a society the was well balanced with there environment. They lived in harmony with there ecosystem. Not living beyond there sustainable resources. It is monotheism that has been the biggest blight on society.
Truth is truth. Mickey mouse & jesus christ have preached a lot of the same sermons. But i have never seen a great mouse crusade.
Tu
Son of sky and earth
Maori god of war, hunting, fishing, cultivation, & cooking
To answer some of this:
1 Those who murdered, enslaved, and abused people in the name of Christ were going against the Lord Jesus Christ. Real born of God people have always been a minority. Most of those , for example, who attacked American indian tribal people were not actual Christians, just greedy religious people or pseudochristians. Actual Christians who were committed to spreading the Gospel of the grace of God understood and understand that physical force is not ever to be used to compel anyone to believe. The real Christian compels with Biblical based statements and the words of God and also by showing it through their compassion to others. Many of these people were attacked and were infact the majority of the persecuted by the State churches and church states that were basically pagans with a Christian mask.
2 Regarding the Maoris, I am sure there are people alot more well versed in that and other cultures but the bottom line is this: There are good and bad aspects to cultures. Knowledge of medicinal plants and what are good survival foods, various colored clothes and foods and other things are okay, but sacrificing your children and cutting off people's heads to idols is universally evil and wicked. Before those Spanish Conquistadores arrived on the scene, the Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas were cutting out the hearts of sacrifice victims. Now, the Conquistadores for the most part were an example of what I stated above: Pagans with a pseudo christian mask, who's main goal was to get rich quick and have power over others. Most of the priests and others who went with them had the same basic goals. If you care about the salvation of someone's soul you do not burn them at the stake or use murder and torture. You preach the Gospel of Christ to them and leave the ultimate decision in their free will choice. That is how the real Christian does it.
Man started out believing in the true God, and then as time went on and people turned away from Him, in came paganism and all of the problems associated with that. Idolatry goes hand in hand with genocide and immorality because if you don't care what God says, and you are willing to change His words and replace them with your own cultic belief, then all Hell breaks loose.
Even atheistic anthropologists admit that before Christian missionaries got around the world most people groups, both the ancient Europeans, as well as people in Pacifica, what we call South and Central and even North America, and Asia, as well as Africa, were cannibalizing and sacrificing people. The Gospel of Christ teaches people not only that a person can be saved by faith alone in Christ alone, but, it also teaches people to care for the feebleminded and weak and to bear each other's burdens.
The problem today is the same problem as always: People who claim to believe in God don't live their faith out often but some do.
I would agree with Po the Atheist on this: Billionaires and Millionaires who claim to be Christians and who claim to believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, SHOULD do more to help those in need and make sure there is no homelessness and poverty stricken people. It can be done but most don't care or won't.
There are also complex issues, too: Not all homeless people are mentally stable. Many are mentally ill and need to be in some mandatory safe facility where they have to take medications that stabilize them and need help with meeting their needs, while not being abused and mistreated.
Sadly, some of these problems will not be solved until the Lord Jesus Christ returns.
Understand, I have no angst towards you. I thank you for asking these questions and I hope I answered them to your satisfaction.0 -
The Judeo-Christian religion is a cult of blood sacrifice. Three thousand years ago, the primitives in the region were sacrificing animals to various "gods" in search of good fortune, and when the Yahweh cult bubbled up from this sludge of superstition, they even used the existing temples and alters with the slight twist that there was only one god who commanded you to sacrifice a fowl, a sheep, an ox for forgiveness of "unrighteousness". Jesus himself is a human sacrifice, the "blood of the lamb". Disgusting.
The bible is full of instructions for god ordained murder, genocide, and slavery, including the sacrifice of first born sons. On the other hand, the archeological, geological, and historical records are full of evidence that Noah, Moses, and most likely Jesus of Nazareth never existed outside cult member's imaginations. The proposition that god sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself because of how he himself made us, is too much for a critically thinking person to fall for.
No, Jesus is not going to save the rich when "free market capitalism" drives wealth inequality over the tipping point, and our society degenerates into feudalism. It is either a modicum of restraint to preserve the human dignity of the masses now, or torches and pitchforks afterwards. The children of educated people are not going to grovel at the feet of the rich for a mud patch to grow potatoes on.0 -
Benchmade154cm,
As Po has stated, the problems you have with pacific and indigenous people of the Americas are very similar to activities in you holy book of spells. Gideon rivals Hitler in his genocide and war crimes. Also, we acted with the same intent in Vietnam. The taking of enemy ears as a trophy. I guess that is just part of a head so its ok.
Your god of love screws with Abraham and Isaac, demanding he kill his son. Just to change its mind? Where do i sign up?
Speaking of your holy bible, how can you believel anything in it? Your god has plagiarized the very first book. The majority of this book was cut and pasted from the Sumerian beliefs. Abraham was from the land of Summer, coincidence? Isn't this enough to discredit the whole thing?
Then there is moses. Rigorously trained in the first documented monotheistic religion. He was raised during the rule of Akhenaten & Nefertiti. They moved from a pantheon of gods to just Aten the sun disc. This is the start of monotheism, not a burning shrub in Iran0 -
Tu and Po: You have it all wrong. It is the opposite. This ongoing lie that "The Jews and Christians took and borrowed their beliefs from the pagans" is the opposite of reality.
Everyone started out believing in the true God, Jehovah, as in with Adam and Eve. Mitochondrial DNA has shown that all humankind started out with one female. Over time because of personal and tribal and national rebellion, people turned away from the true God, and began to invent false gods, and worship idols. At times God brought revival, such as He did with Abraham, when He started the Israelite/Jewish nation.
The reason why there are similiarities is because the basic original concepts such as that God would send His Son to die for the sins of mankind and would shed His blood for that payment was known from at least Adam and Eve, the first people. This was recorded by Moses in Genesis 3:15. But the knowledge was there from the start.
Satan, the devil, with his army of fallen angels/evil spirits, knew this data, and fabricated false religions that twist and copy the truth. Does that explain it to you how it works?
Also, you can do a historical look up and see that with ancient Babylon and the spreading of the human race at the Tower of Babel outwards, they took this basic knowledge and distorted it and came up with a heap of false gods and goddesses based on things as stated above.
Regarding Abraham and Isaac, God was showing Abraham that 1 Abraham was so willing to love God ahead of himself and anyone else that he was willing to sacrifice his only son, and God stopped him from actually doing it. God on the other hand DID sacrifice HIS only begotten Son for you and me and all people. Doesn't that make you and Po thank God for what He went through?
Abraham became known as the friend of God as a result.
Secondly, God showed extreme and intense mercy to those pagan nations. They were murdering and sacrificing their children for centuries and God gave them time to repent. They did not. He also had to protect the Jewish people and the Messianic Line from destruction. Who are you to complain against God and then hypocritically judge God and ignore the atrocities committed by their people.
Here is a good question for you: Do you, Tu, with all of the people here to read it, agree that it was a sin and it was wrong and it was murder for the Aztecs to cut the hearts out of people sacrificing them to their idols/sun god/etc, or do you believe it was okay? What is your answer my friend?0 -
Just as i believe it is wrong to judge our founding father, who were slave owners, by current standards of society. I believe it would be wrong to judge a stone age society by todays standards. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Benchmade154CM:
...Everyone started out believing in the true God, Jehovah...
Pure bullshi+. The old testament is largely based on the Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh which predated Judaism by a thousand years.
The Hindu holy book, the Rig Veda, is about 3,500 years old with religious motifs dating back 7,000 years, about 5,000 before Judaism.
You are a delusional, brainwashed, hateful idiot. Your own words are proof that Christianity is a fantasty, just look at the bigotry and hatred you spew at liberals, many of whom are "Christians" also. There is no loving spiritual transformation at work in you. You are a poster child for the evil and ignorance that the Abrahamic religions foster in the hearts of fanatics.0
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