Sharpening 940
Hi all-
So I'm not sure if this is the right area to post this, but I have a 940 that is in need of sharpening. I don't have much experience sharpening, but I can use a Spyderco Sharpmaker well enough. My question/concern is usually Benchmade ships from the factory at around 60 degree inclusive, and I want to reprofile the blade to 30 degree inclusive and put a microlevel on there. I have never reprofiled a blade before (as should be obvious with me using a Sharpmaker with diamond rods...) so I guess my question is how do I know when I am done and have essentially gotten to a stopping point with a 30 degree from a 60 degree? Also I recognize it's going to take forever with S30V, but I'm patient enough, I just need to have an idea of when I can call it quits.
So I'm not sure if this is the right area to post this, but I have a 940 that is in need of sharpening. I don't have much experience sharpening, but I can use a Spyderco Sharpmaker well enough. My question/concern is usually Benchmade ships from the factory at around 60 degree inclusive, and I want to reprofile the blade to 30 degree inclusive and put a microlevel on there. I have never reprofiled a blade before (as should be obvious with me using a Sharpmaker with diamond rods...) so I guess my question is how do I know when I am done and have essentially gotten to a stopping point with a 30 degree from a 60 degree? Also I recognize it's going to take forever with S30V, but I'm patient enough, I just need to have an idea of when I can call it quits.
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I could never personally get the hang of the Sharpmaker, as I'd slightly vary the angle through the course of multiple strokes and destroy any chance of getting a consistent bevel. If that's not you, then standard best practices apply as to any sharpening system.
For example, you could use a Sharpie to mark the existing 60° bevel. If you then hit that bevel with a 30° sharpening stroke, you'll scrape off steel (and Sharpie) at the widest part, furthest away from the blade edge. This means the Sharpie marking at the edge will not be affected. Gradually, as the new bevel takes shape, it will grind inwards towards the edge itself. Eventually all the Sharpie will be gone, which means the old bevel will be gone.
Disclaimer: I've never done this, but it seems like it should work. YMMV!0 -
Hey Seth,
Over the last year or so we have improved our sharpening process to hit a 30°-40° angle target. Unfortunately we did have a period of time that our angles were much closer to 50°-60°.
Anyway, feel free to send it in for free sharpening if you are concerned with doing it yourself.1 -
The Sharpmaker is the wrong tool for reprofiling.
If you want to do it with machine-like precision, you will need to spend a couple hundred dollars or more on a Wicket Edge or Lansky sharpening jig.
I reprofile my knife blades either using a medium (like 320 grit or so) grit bench stone or using a stone file, the kind you buy at Home Depot for sharpening lawn mower blades and gardening tools ($5). I put a couple layers of electrical tape just covering the shoulder of the blade grind. The idea of the tape is to make it so that if you lay the grind of the blade flat on the stone, and it won't scratch the blade flat, but only touch near the edge. And that is how I start, I lay the grind flat on the stone, then lift up the blade spine a little bit, and sharpen. Sharpen until you feel a burr on the side of the edge opposite the one you've been sharpening. Then turn the blade over and repeat on the other side. Once you have a burr on the second side, sharpen the knife on your Sharpmaker, but don't hold the blade vertical. Again, lay the grind face flat on the Sharpmaker rod, then raise the spine up, maybe a little more than you did when you reprofiled the edge. Sharpen this way on both sides until you have a nice sharp edge that will shave hair or cleanly slice paper, whatever your goal is. It won't be 30.0 degrees, but it will be pretty fine, and will cut like a razor. If you find the edge chips during your normal use, steepen the angle up a little next time you sharpen with the Sharpmaker. Use a marker pen on the edge to tell you you are hitting the edge the way you want.
Practice on a cheap kitchen knife first, if you are nervous, but the worst that could happen is you wind up sending it in to Benchmade for Lifesharp service. It will come back like new.
The best way to learn to sharpen is to search Youtube for videos on cheapest way to sharpen a knife.
Good luck, but you won't need it. Just a little practice.0 -
I use diamond rods on my sharpmaker to do all of the profiling. It took a while to learn the basics but once you get the edge profile you are satisfied with, then move on to the finer stones. It used to take hours for me to re-profile a blade and now only about ten minutes. Like Po said, practice on a cheep knife. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
Lansky....Youtube
All you need to know lol..0 -
Edge pro is better ............lol 0 -
They all cost too much. 
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Yes all the top sharpening systems are too expensive! I use various oil and water stones to hand sharpen my knives. My dad used to sharpen knives for the fish companies he worked at and he showed me his "secrets". I use a ceramic steel to touch up my edges regularly so I minimize my re-profiling. I did get a sharp maker as a gift and I did play with it some. If you were using the standard sticks to try re-profiling it would take hours. With your diamond sticks you shouldn't have to take too long. Just do as "Po says..." When you get proficient get a 940-1 with the S90v and have fun with that. 
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Thanks folks this is all really helpful and I very much appreciate it! I think I'll take the safe option for now and send my 940 in (I didn't know they refined their angles) and from there I'll just use the sharpmaker for tuneups. I figure if I already have it at 30 degrees, I can maintain it from there, it's just the reprofiling I'm having trouble with. Thanks all! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
They all cost too much.quote:Originally posted by Sharp Eye:
Yes all the top sharpening systems are too expensive!
Lansky LKDMD 4-Stone Deluxe Diamond System Precision Knife Sharpening Kit - $55.00
Well worth every penny!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Keyman:
...Lansky LKDMD 4-Stone Deluxe Diamond System Precision Knife Sharpening Kit - $55.00
Well worth every penny!
Oh...that's not very much.
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In order to get the diamond stones all the way down to the ultra fine for the sharpmaker you're going to have to pay up around $165 if you get them new. IMO the diamond and ultra fine are the most important ones.
Knowing what I know now I would have opted for a different system but the sharpmaker works for me. Its definitely not the easiest system to master but it has great resale value.0 -
quote:Originally posted by boinkman:
In order to get the diamond stones all the way down to the ultra fine for the sharpmaker you're going to have to pay up around $165 if you get them new. IMO the diamond and ultra fine are the most important ones.
Knowing what I know now I would have opted for a different system but the sharpmaker works for me. Its definitely not the easiest system to master but it has great resale value.
I use 300/600/1000/2000 Diamond plate with 1200 rattail. This covers all of my knives to be super razor sharp. Just use the sharpener with sturdy hands will achieve this.
Exception of my family sword, because they are classic and grader will not tolerate non classical sharpening, I use wet stone.0 -
I've been using the regular Lasnky 5 stone set for a number of years now with good results, like everything other skill there is a learning curve.
I also got a seperate Lansky leather strop which I rubbed with green polishing compound, the results I get are a mirror razor edge that's as good as anything you can get from any other system.
I thing the Lasnky cost me around $35-$40 with international shipping.0 -
Quick follow up question. I noticed Rediedge makes a 30 degree inclusive pull through carbide field sharpener. I know it's not ideal by any means, but is there any harm in using that to "quickly" reprofile an obtuse edge and then relying on the sharp maker to clean it up and maintain it? I'm really just looking to find a way to quickly and easily get the angle I like and use the sharp maker to fine tune, without buying an entirely new system. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Seth Davis:
Quick follow up question. I noticed Rediedge makes a 30 degree inclusive pull through carbide field sharpener. I know it's not ideal by any means, but is there any harm in using that to "quickly" reprofile an obtuse edge and then relying on the sharp maker to clean it up and maintain it? I'm really just looking to find a way to quickly and easily get the angle I like and use the sharp maker to fine tune, without buying an entirely new system.
The problem with those IMO is that its not real feasible to sharpen the tip of the knife. As you pull the blade and you get close to the end you'll have a hard time pulling the knife with enough force to sharpen the remaining 25% of the blade. If you use your knife more in the belly of the edge and you need to sharpen in the field than I don't see the harm in it. They do tend to scratch up the blade a bit.0 -
quote:Originally posted by boinkman:
In order to get the diamond stones all the way down to the ultra fine for the sharpmaker you're going to have to pay up around $165...
Ah ha! Expensive. I knew it.
Remember, there is nothing to fear but fear itself.
My sharpening "kit" is made up of the following:
A few sheets of 600, 800, and 1000 abrasive paper. < $10
A cork pad - couple bucks from OSH.
Mounse pad - found.
A "stone file" for sharpening garden tools - makes reprofiling anything a ten minute job. <$10
Spyderco Sharpmaker - I only use the rods free hand so I could have just bought the replacement rods, one medium, one fine. About $25.
Oh, and a medium point Sharpie. $1.50?
That's it...well I have an 8" bench stone, but I rarely use it 'cuz I'm too lazy to deal with the water and the mess. I bought it before I learned to sharpen, don't remember what it cost.
Funny, but all that stuff adds up to almost $50 so not that much cheaper than a Lansky. Ha!
The advantage of sharpening freehand is the flexibility. You can sharpen anything, don't have to worry about blade shapes not working with the jigs.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Po:
Ah ha! Expensive. I knew it.
Spyderco Sharpmaker - I only use the rods free hand so I could have just bought the replacement rods, one medium, one fine.
I never pay full price. I got my setup with diamond to Ultra fine for less than $60 but that took some work and it wasn't new.
When I'm to lazy to pull out the sharpmaker, I just grab an ultra fine rod and lay it on the table and use the edge to hone after each use. It takes two strokes each side and keeps the blade feeling like it can't get any sharper.
They say the best way to sharpen a knife is to not let it get to dull.0 -
quote:Originally posted by boinkman:quote:Originally posted by Seth Davis:
Quick follow up question. I noticed Rediedge makes a 30 degree inclusive pull through carbide field sharpener. I know it's not ideal by any means, but is there any harm in using that to "quickly" reprofile an obtuse edge and then relying on the sharp maker to clean it up and maintain it? I'm really just looking to find a way to quickly and easily get the angle I like and use the sharp maker to fine tune, without buying an entirely new system.
The problem with those IMO is that its not real feasible to sharpen the tip of the knife. As you pull the blade and you get close to the end you'll have a hard time pulling the knife with enough force to sharpen the remaining 25% of the blade. If you use your knife more in the belly of the edge and you need to sharpen in the field than I don't see the harm in it. They do tend to scratch up the blade a bit.
The problem with pull through is no way to make perpendicular micro tooth, but all are parallel to the edge.
Majority of sharpening system, you run perpendicular to the edge, right?0 -
I posted this in another thread but my recommendation for a great quality budget system (~$50-60): 
DMT Deluxe Kit Aligner Guided Diamond Sharpener
I've been using this. Its a great, cheap portable system that has quality diamond stones that will put edges on M390 surprisingly fast.0 -
Right I get that, but would it be unwise to take a blade with a 50 or 60 degree angle and essentially cut it down to 30 degrees with a carbide pull-through which will certainly put the striations parallel to the edge. But then I would run it through my desired angle on the sharp-maker (probably start with a diamond rod touchup)and theoretically that'd fix up the micro tooth perpendicular to the edge? I don't know I'm no pro at this, it just seems like a nice quick way to reprofile an edge to me. quote:Originally posted by Mobile Firelord:
The problem with pull through is no way to make perpendicular micro tooth, but all are parallel to the edge.
Majority of sharpening system, you run perpendicular to the edge, right?0 -
quote:Originally posted by BMK Jimmy:
Over the last year or so we have improved our sharpening process to hit a 30°-40° angle target. Unfortunately we did have a period of time that our angles were much closer to 50°-60°.
Anyway, feel free to send it in for free sharpening if you are concerned with doing it yourself.
Jason,
I have a 940 I've had for about 8 years that has a very obtuse and uneven edge. I sharpen my knives myself on a Sharpmaker, but don't want to try to regrind S30V on that, so I've just sharpened the existing bevel. If I send it in to BM, do you guys just sharpen the existing edge bevel, or would it be reground to 30-40 degrees during sharpening?
Thanks!
Dan0 -
A few thoughts about sharpening systems, angles, and relative expense:
>I've carried pocket knives forever, but only got into modern folders maybe 10-15 years ago, and into better quality knives in the last few. I always sharpened free-hand using various methods and always sucked at it, so when I started spending more and buying a lot of knives I figured I better do something about that.
>I paid a little over $61 for a SharpMaker, then bought diamond and and ultra-fine rods for $44 and $34 respectively. $140 relative to the cost of a good quality knife doesn't seem like a major expense for keeping a rapidly expanding stable of higher-and-higher-end knives sharp.
>I mixed and matched when I bought an EdgePro with the basic kit plus some extra stones and tapes and spent $283. For what I use, I could have bought less and saved some dough. Again, I've got more money than that in a lot of knives--just sayin'.
>So, for re-profiling, I can get a lot more done more accurately with the EdgePro, but there's the set-up time, the water, the mess, stone-flattening, and clean-up/re-packing. The SharpMaker takes more time for the sharpening-only aspect but is in many ways more efficient. For any major re-sharpening/re-profiling on the SM the diamond hones are a must.
>My preferred edge is a 30 degree inclusive back-bevel (or secondary-bevel to some) done on the EP with a micro-bevel at 40 degrees done on the SM, both finished on a green-loaded strop. The micro-bevel makes the edge more durable and is wicked easy to touch up on the SM.
>Ofttimes I don't want to bother with the EP and just do what needs to be done on the SM. Like anything, practice makes perfect (well acceptable and more efficient anyway) and the results get better and come more quickly as you go along.
>Like BMK Jimmy said, BM is putting out way better and more consistent edges these days. LifeSharp is a great service and might be the way to go to get an initial re-profiling done, but, considering the two-way shipping and wait-time, it wouldn't take too many of those roundtrips to pay for a decent sharpening system whether that be the WickedEdge, EdgePro, SharpMaker, Lansky, or whatever you may prefer.0 -
Oh, and as to the carbide pull-through "sharpeners", I bought one back in the sucking-at-sharpening days. I have no idea where that item is and am glad of it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Seth Davis:
Right I get that, but would it be unwise to take a blade with a 50 or 60 degree angle and essentially cut it down to 30 degrees with a carbide pull-through which will certainly put the striations parallel to the edge. But then I would run it through my desired angle on the sharp-maker (probably start with a diamond rod touchup)and theoretically that'd fix up the micro tooth perpendicular to the edge? I don't know I'm no pro at this, it just seems like a nice quick way to reprofile an edge to me.quote:Originally posted by Mobile Firelord:
The problem with pull through is no way to make perpendicular micro tooth, but all are parallel to the edge.
Majority of sharpening system, you run perpendicular to the edge, right?
Diamond rod can "refresh" the micro tooth. No problem if you are re-sharpening. Although I am no advocate of paying $300+ for a system that keeps bevel angle straight. What Jobberwocky has posted is something I can live with. ($54)0 -
The DMT system will get the job done and do a pretty good job, but eventually i think you will graduate to a better system. I personally like the Wicked Edge system,after you spend so much on great knives whats a little more for a great edge. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by w30hammer:
The DMT system will get the job done and do a pretty good job, but eventually i think you will graduate to a better system. I personally like the Wicked Edge system,after you spend so much on great knives whats a little more for a great edge.
I was wondering that too, but I have found that my hands are almost surprisingly sturdy and freehand resulted in hair popping sharp edge, so I didn't want to spend $300 for their alignment tool. Jobberwocky's list of DMC augments my method of sharpening, If I want to re-profile larger blade.0 -
Go convex and sharpen on a mouse pad and a fifty-cent piece of wet-dry paper! 0 -
Dan,
If you send in your 940 they will re-grind the obtuse edge to the 30-40 degree current standard.0 -
quote:Originally posted by BMK Jimmy:
Dan,
If you send in your 940 they will re-grind the obtuse edge to the 30-40 degree current standard.
Awesome, thanks Jimmy!0
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