Lifesharp for Life?
I don't sharpen my own knives. I've thought about learning, but until I do my only option is to use Lifesharp. My question is (remember I know nothing about sharpening) does Lifesharp shorten the life of your blade? I don't let my knives get really dull, so I'm wondering if stropping would be a better option to maintain an edge versus a a grinding stone (assuming that's what Benchmade uses). Does that make sense? On a related note, is honing the same as stropping or sharpening?
Thanks
Thanks
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Random thoughts:
1) BM seems to use discs and belts. See part 3 here: http://benchmadeforum.com/eve/...8998001#676008998001
2) The less you need to do to an edge, the longer it should last.
3) Edge Pro uses ceramic hones to finish an edge after sharpening. Others use stropping to finish an edge. Still others might use the terms loosely. Stropping can involve anything from a piece of cardboard to a leather strop charged with abrasive stropping compound.
4) If you're really concerned with blade longevity through decades of use, it might be worth looking into convex geometries, as they don't change the edge/backbevel thickness over years of sharpening.
5) Enthusiasts probably change out their knives way too often for blade longevity to be a big deal. But maybe not. =)0 -
quote:Originally posted by calypso699:
...My question is...does Lifesharp shorten the life of your blade?...
These guys are experts, and on the two blades I've sent in, they came back looking newer than they looked when I sent them in. Having said that, I think kirby is correct, they use power tools to do the sharpening, and hand sharpening would probably remove less material from the edge. This would be particularly true if you were sending your knives in regularly before they get very dull. If that is the case, they should be easy to touch up by hand or on a sharpening tool like Edge Pro.quote:...I'm wondering if stropping would be a better option to maintain an edge versus a a grinding stone...
If the blade is not very dull, yes, a simple stropping would be better. It would remove less material from the edge.quote:...On a related note, is honing the same as stropping or sharpening?
Honing is sharpening, but I think it implies using a wetstone, as opposed to stropping which implies a leather or other organic polishing medium being used. Stropping is usually a fine polishing of an already sharpened edge for a razor-like edge.0 -
Mitchell, I think a guy should use the least abrasive sharpening system that will do the job.
Here are the ones I use that are mild to rough:
1. leather strop
1. WorkSharp electric strop
1. Paper wheel rotary strop
2. Sharpmaker (which has pretty mild stones)
3. EdgePro
I won't progress up to the Edgepro unless the others don't seem to be getting it done. The EdgePro always gets it done.
You could easily get a smooth leather belt at a second hand store or buy a leather strop. Read some background on stropping methods and you're set.
Get yourself a Spyderco Sharpmaker. It would probably handle 75% of your sharpening needs, especially if you don't let your blades get too dull before using it.
The EdgePro would do it all, but you'd be looking at about 200 bones, so you might want to try the others first.
I hope you try some of these. It's fun to do your own. Check em all out on YouTube.0 -
quote:I don't let my knives get really dull
If this is the case .......buy a Sharpmaker , there easy to use and good for maintaining the edge.
Comes with a how to video ...........really easy to use0 -
The best solution is to take the time learn to sharpen your own knives.
I'm sure lifesharp is an excellent service like everything else BM does but for me as an overseas customer it's not really an option as shipping costs make it unrealistic.
As to sharpening knives on disks and belts, I would be very carful, you can easily remove a lot of material but the thing that concerns me is that the high speed friction between the belt/wheel and metal creates heat which can cause the edge to change characteristics and become more brittle.
My theory is not based on any conclusive evidence but it seems to me that the factory edge tends to chip a little easier than the edge I put on it on my Lansky.
As to sharpeners, they are all good, it depends on your learning curve and budget.
I use the Lanskey with excellent results, in the end it's a guide rod system just like it's more expensive cousines, it's simpler, cheaper but very effective if you take the littel time and patience to learn it and get the maximum out of it.
There is'nt a knife in my little arsenal, including kitchen kniven that I did not manage with realtive ease, to put a stupidly hair, popping razor edge that is even, nicely profiled and polished, if it does'nt work for you than you can move on to the more expensive kits.
Good luck.0 -
quote:Originally posted by archer:
the thing that concerns me is that the high speed friction between the belt/wheel and metal creates heat which can cause the edge to change characteristics and become more brittle.
Yeah, I wonder how BM controls that. I saw a factory tour video from Bark River, who also uses mechanized sharpening equipment (belts). When they sharpen, they don't wear gloves. When a blade heats up enough to be uncomfortable to hold, they quench it in water. I'm not sure how effective that actually is, but it seems to make sense and their blades seem durable enough.0 -
Thanks everybody for the feedback and suggestions. Lots of good info here and I really appreciate it.
Learning to sharpen my own knives is something that's always been on my list. For one reason or another I never get around to it. If I'm being honest though it's probably a fear of the unknown. Sharpening seems involved with all the angles, stones, etc. I need to start watching some YouTube videos. Maybe that will help get me excited. Thanks again everyone.0 -
quote:Originally posted by calypso699:
Thanks everybody for the feedback and suggestions. Lots of good info here and I really appreciate it.
Learning to sharpen my own knives is something that's always been on my list. For one reason or another I never get around to it. If I'm being honest though it's probably a fear of the unknown. Sharpening seems involved with all the angles, stones, etc. I need to start watching some YouTube videos. Maybe that will help get me excited. Thanks again everyone.
If your ever in Gilroy area ......... come by and see me.....0 -
quote:Originally posted by calypso699:
I need to start watching some YouTube videos. Maybe that will help get me excited. Thanks again everyone.
You could also just buy a $3 chinese knife or two and give it a try. no sense risking a good blade practicing.0 -
Just get a good oil stone at Walmart or any big sporting goods store and practice on an old beater knife. Don't be worried--it's not as hard as it sounds. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by something:quote:Originally posted by calypso699:
I need to start watching some YouTube videos. Maybe that will help get me excited. Thanks again everyone.
You could also just buy a $3 chinese knife or two and give it a try. no sense risking a good blade practicing.
Thats why Something now has 356 China knives ......LOL0 -
In reality , when I got my belt sander , I ruined a 943 blade and ended up sending it to BM for a blade change ......LOL
I just use the belt sander on kitchen knives now ......Ive gotten to be fairly decent with it now.0 -
quote:. Don't be worried--it's not as hard as it sounds.
Or looks , according to my wife .........LOL0 -
quote:Originally posted by dj:quote:Originally posted by something:quote:Originally posted by calypso699:
I need to start watching some YouTube videos. Maybe that will help get me excited. Thanks again everyone.
You could also just buy a $3 chinese knife or two and give it a try. no sense risking a good blade practicing.
Thats why Something now has 356 China knives ......LOL
Don't be silly... I use Spydercos for that
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The bottom line is yes, life sharp will remove more material than most people would doing it by hand (without power tools/belts, etc). If you really suck at sharpening you could actually remove more material than life sharp.
I would suggest the Sharpmaker first. I think this is an easy and inexpensive way to start learning about sharpening in general. I would suggest this before trying free hand sharpening.
Another idea. If you are concerned about blade life. Send 1 knife in for life sharp and keep another for sharpening your self. See over time how much difference it really makes.
To clarify a few definitions:
sharpening = removing material (by any means/medium) and reforming the edge.
stropping = straightening of the edge (dull edges actually deform and fold over) The stropping compound or even bare leather has some abrasive quality, so yes a tiny bit of material is removed, but this does not count as sharpening. It will also polish the blade.
Honing = to sharpen with a whetstone or to touch up a sharpening knife with fine grit stones, not having to start from the beginning with coarse grit stones.
Stropping works very well if you do it regularly . If you let the blade get "dull" it is too late for stropping. I strop every time I use the knife just about. It only takes a few passes and you're done.
Even if you don't strop, the sooner you touch up the blade the less work involved and the less material you have to remove to reset the edge. This is what is nice about the sharpmaker. The first time you sharpen a knife it will take some time. But you can then touch up the knife with the fine stones, and only need a few minutes.
So a large part of how much material is removed in sharpening is up to you. The duller you let a knife get the more material is removed to restore the edge. The more frequently you touch up an edge the better off you are.0 -
I enjoyed reading your post, Geocyclist. I just wanted to add one experience from yesterday.
I recently put a nice edge on an M4 551 Grip blade. I used it last night to break down about 7 big cardboard boxes. After doing something like that I usually try slicing a piece of type paper just to see if there are any places on the blade that catch or snag...meaning it needs some degree of sharpening. This particular blade did snag in the same two places each time. The easy solution for me was to turn a yellow legal pad over and strop the blade on the back cover of the pad. I did this about 7 strokes per side, which is my standard amount and the blade was returned to its former state of perfect sharpness.
Sometimes it doesn't take much to bring back the edge.0 -
quote:Originally posted by fastjan:
...turn a yellow legal pad over and strop the blade on the back cover of the pad...
One of the most important components of a caveman's sharpening kit.
...along with a Sharpie and a stone file - the kind they sell at OSH for sharpening lawnmower blades - for resetting edge bevels. But the stone file is advanced high-tech stuff, not necessary for the beginner.
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Wow, lot's of great information here. Thanks everyone!
I'm on the hunt for a Sharpmaker but have a question about angles. How important is it to maintain the same angle the knife came with? I have knives from a few different makers so I'm wondering if using a Sharpmaker would'nt be a good idea on some...0 -
IMO the angle should fit not (just) the knife but rather the intended task, maintenance expectation, and damage tolerance. Batoning tree branches and slicing tomatoes probably justify vastly different edge angles.
If you'd like, you could always reprofile the edges of all your knives to the same angle. Alternately, you could have different classes of knife, e.g. kitchen, game dressing, EDC, etc. and keep consistent angles on each type.
It's true that reprofiling takes a bunch of steel off, but the hope is that you only have to do that once. The upside is that you'll then find it easier to maintain edges because they're at consistent angles, and anything that's easier is more likely to actually get done.
2c0 -
You'll notice about 3 posts up that Po mentions using a Sharpie marker on the edge...well that's kind of the key to any sharpening system. You've got to pick an angle or sharpen the blade enough that you are cutting clear through to the opposite side of the blade. By marking the edge with the Sharpie and then trying the Sharpmaker on say the 30 degree angle, you will be able to see by the missing ink whether or not that angle is cutting clear down to the blade edge. If it's not, then switch to the 40 degree angle. The 40 degree angle usually cuts clear to the edge on these tactical knives.
With some knives, I will have the back-bevel cut to 20 or 30 degrees and then have the primary edge cut to 40. That's sometimes referred to as a 40 degree micro edge. The 40 micro edge will prevent lots of chipping issues, and they still cut really well.
So...for me, at least, I don't worry too much about matching the original edge angle.0 -
quote:Originally posted by kirbysdl:
IMO the angle should fit not (just) the knife but rather the intended task...
...and the blade steel. M4 should be more resilient than 154CM, and will be durable at finer edge angles. For a long time, my approach has been to put a fine edge bevel on - something significantly finer than 40 included - and see if the edge gets beat up. If it does, I steepen up the edge a little. Pretty much the same result as the micro bevel FJ was talking about.0 -
Thanks Guys! Going to the Plaza show on Sunday. Keeping my eyes open for a sharp maker. 0 -
GREAT information here! I've been wanting an edge pro apex for sometime and have just used quick sharpeners on my sub $50 knives. I won't let that thing touch my 915 though. Lifesharp this week and then I'm going to look into the Sharpmaker. Stropping will be my primary once I get it back from Lifesharp, however.
Thanks to everyone that contributed and to the OP for making the thread!0 -
I decided on the Edge Pro from the feedback here as well. Yet to make the financial commitment however.
Stropping is whats saving me at the moment. Caveman style of course. Cardboard, Leather belt, rough side...then smooth. (Im not an animal).. Finish on freshly cleaned and worn denim.
I may get fancy and add polish to the leather belt phase..
Welcome to the forum BurF14.0 -
For some of you guys who haven't quite made the jump to an EP, have you ever considered picking out one knife with a satin blade and putting a convex edge on it?
There's plenty of easy to follow examples on YouTube, but here's a simplified summary on how its done:
Get yourself a few different grits of black sandpaper. WalMart stuff is fine. You'd probably like grits from about 100 to 400. The 100 (or 80) will do your primary reshaping and by the time you get to the 400, it will mostly be just making the blade shiny.
Lay the sandpaper on a mouse pad on a sturdy desk and strop the blade on it. The pad helps make the convex shape. Progress up through the various grits (in maybe 4 steps) and you are done. It takes a while the first time you do a blade becasue you are changing the shape of the edge. After that, when it gets dull, a few licks with a 320 or 400 grit will usually have it sharp again. Use a leather strop on it too.
I've never tried to put a convex edge on a black coated blade because I always assumed that one uncareful pass on the sandpaper could make the coating ugly...but, after you've done a few satin blades, try it on a black edc.
If you don't like the edge when you are done, you can always put it on the Edge Pro to go back to a regular edge shape.
Now remember, this was just a quick lesson. Watch the guys on YouTube for complete coverage. I think the Bark River Knives website has a tab you can click on for a lesson since most of their edges are convex.0 -
I looked at a couple of YouTube videos on convex sharpening to see how they differed from what I wrote. One difference is that those guys are using much finer sandpaper...like 2,000 or 2,500.
I think it's because they already have a convex edge and are just honing it. That initial cut to a convex shape would take too much time for me unless I used coarse paper to get it done. I'd say buy a bunch of different grits and if you don't need them all, you'll still have good sand paper that you can use elsewhere.0 -
I'm intrigued by the idea but I've never jumped in and done it. As for scratching a black blade, if it's a user anyway, who cares? Besides, it can't look much worse than if you were sloppy with an Edge Pro. 0 -
Heck, you ought to try it at least once. Three more advantages of convex blades: 1) They're the strongest blade shape, the cross-section being shaped like a bullet. 2) It seems it would be easier to backpack with a mouse pad and a sheet of sandpaper rather than a heavy stone. 3) For $20 you have all you need. That's just 40% of the price of a Sharpmaker and just 10% the price of an EP.quote:Originally posted by Trailboss:
I'm intrigued by the idea but I've never jumped in and done it. As for scratching a black blade, if it's a user anyway, who cares? Besides, it can't look much worse than if you were sloppy with an Edge Pro.0 -
Ya know...I was kinda doing this inadvertently to touch up my BT coated 913.
I would lay a sheet of sand paper across my thigh, pinch one side on bench leg.....you get the idea. (pretty fine paper, cant remember what two grits I was using, to lazy to go to garage at the moment)
Brought the D2 back fairly well Id say,,,good working edge, anyway. I didnt really maul the coating up that bad either, easy to adjust angle and pressure. I guess I was working it towards a convex edge without realizing it. The Barkies are what got me to appreciate the convex grind.0 -
I usually sharpen my knives myself but decided to send 3 in to Life Sharp because I was wanting that factory edge only BKC can provide.
I forgot they replace all screws, Omega springs on 2 of them and replaced painted clips with black oxide (on my request.) Pivot screws tend to fade in time as do the handle screws.
When replaced and tightened with lock tight, cleaned and sharpened, returned licitly split it’s like turning back the clock to NEW KNIFE.
Life Sharp is a service unlike any I am aware of in any business. Truly unique.0
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